Godet and Werner..

[Biro]

Does anyone know at what stage - if indeed ever - Godet and Werner were in bed together?

I've never read of this association but see the occaisional bar about marked thus..

Marshall

[Stogieman]

Huh. New tag. Have not seen this one before. Anybody else????

[HeikoGrusdat]

Stogie, I have seen these tags several times but not very often... how rare they are you can see as I have NOT EVEN 1 in my collection...

[Guest Rick Research]

Me either!!!!

What's ON these bars? What time period are we talking about? 1920s? 1930s?

[Mark M]

Rick

Ask and ye shall receive. Here is a link to that other forum with a two place bar currently for sale.

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/sho...ad.php?t=153799

Regards,

Mark

[slava1stclass]

Me either!!!!

What's ON these bars? What time period are we talking about? 1920s? 1930s?

These images (of another Godet-Werner-produced bar) should help.

Regards,

slava1stclass

[Daniel Murphy]

Huh???? Do my eyes decieve me or does that last bar have not one, but TWO Oldenburg Verdienst Kreuz' on it. One of each combattant and non-combattant? Either the bar is fake or it has been "messed" with. I did a double take when I saw the one on the WAF.

Dan Murphy

Edited April 19, 2006 by Daniel Murphy

[Mark M]

The Oldenburg's are a combatant AND non-combatant ribbon. First time I have ever seen that!

[HeikoGrusdat]

Why making copies from other forums, ask Christian for pictures and informations on his bar directly in this forum here...

I am not shure if we should talk about fakes because of a needle system in this case... look at the backing of ALL those G&W bars shown here - they all look nearly like each other : their own firm style...

[Christian L]

here is a bigger scann of the markers tag and catch - also from the bar itself i'm selling it and (as much you can trust a sellers comment - or perhaps not) i really like the bar (very much)!

the catch is not a "rounded" hand made one - its not U shape like it has real corners like this [] (its impossible to make a scann of it, but i hope you understand my poor explanation).

[Paul C]

I have my reservations about this Godet tag. Attached is the Godet firm history from Court Jewelers of the World by Jeffrey R. Jacobs, published in 1975.

Part 1

Edited April 19, 2006 by Paul Chepurko

[Paul C]

part 2

[HeikoGrusdat]

very interesting... Paul, do you have any informations that Godet has EVER been a "AG" in their history?

[medalnet]

I have my reservations about this Godet tag. Attached is the Godet firm history from Court Jewelers of the World by Jeffrey R. Jacobs, published in 1975.

Part 1

I just love the part where it says "...the well known author and collector". What else did he do with his new company?

[Les]

The absence of "Hindenburg's" on the medal bars suggests pre-1934 manufacturer. A google search for "Godet-Werner" turned up this item:

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:Eu28VH...us&ct=clnk&cd=2

Part way down the page is a cased 1937 Cross of Merit of the German Red Cross (DRK), with "Jeweliere Godet-Werner Friedrichstr. 173 Berlin" in a 4-line inscription. The address is the location of J.H. Werner's shop in Berlin. I borrowed this quote from Andreas' web-site: "Goldsmith J.H. Werner run his company Berlin at Unter den Linden 1 separate from his shop in Friedrichstr. 173. His mainly supplied decorations of the 4th class of the Order of the Crown and the Red Eagle Order to the General Orders Commission."

None of this provides proof positive anything about a possible Godet and Werner collection.

During the inter-war years, Godet may have had financial problems because of limits on the size of Germany's armed forces, loss of the firm's Imperial "court" standing and Wilhelm's support and patronage in the aftermath of WWI, and competition from other firms.

Interestingly, the 1938/40 Schickel catalogue has a drawing of a PlM with eagles that closely resemble a Godet type PlM. (The piece has been dubbed a "Schickel" on another forum....). Is it possible that Godet was somehow involved in the manufacturing of the Schickel? I don't know.

If the Godet-Werner bars are real, what might have happened is something as simple as Werner buying Godet made medals, and mounting or casing them in his own shop at Friedrichstr. 173, and selling them under some form of an agreement with Godet. Maybe? Maybe not?

"Gebrueder" Godet is something of a misnomer for the Godet firm during the 1930's and during WWII since there was only Eugen for most of the interawr years and during WWII, and no "Gebrueder" in business with him.

Les

Edited April 19, 2006 by Les

[Les]

very interesting... Paul, do you have any informations that Godet has EVER been a "AG" in their history?

Heiko, some people might not know what a German "AG" is. Here's an Internet definition for the forum:

Aktiengesellschaft. Translates to "stock corporation." In Germany, all publicly traded companies are AG's, but not all AG's are publicly traded. AG's have two sets of boards -- the Vorstand, which usually consists of the CEO, CFO and other top management, and an Aufsichtsrat, which translates to "supervisory board," which has the function of overseeing management and representing the shareholders. German law prohibits individuals from being members of both boards. AG's in Germany require a minimum of DM 100,000 share capital and at least five shareholders at incorporation. Minimum par value for shares is DM 50.

Les

[Paul C]

The only information I have is posted above.

[Stogieman]

Very interesting discussion..........

[Paul C]

I received the email from a fellow collect, Andy B. and he asked me to do the post as he is unable to get it.

I read the string on Godet and Werner and then yesterday, I received a copy of the 1930 Milit?r-Wochenblatt in the mail. As I was paging through it, I came across an ad on page 1034 for the firm. I do not have the means to digitize the ad (no scanner or camera). I'd like to ask you to post the information below into the string, as I think it is quite germane to the on-going discussion.

========

J. Godet & Sohn / J.H. Werner

seit 1761 Juweliere

Berlin W. Friedrichstra?e 173

zwischen Franz?schische und J?ger Stra?e

Juwelen * Goldschmuck * SIlberwaren

Bestecke * Uhren * Ehrenpreise

Werkstatt im Hause - Vorschriftm??. Orden Zusammen-

stellungen - In- und Ausland - Original / Minatur

"Wie trage ich meine Orden?

Brosch?re 1,25 M porotfrei. Postscheck: Berlin 227 69

========

If nothing else, this should dispell any doubts that the two ever worked together.

Thanks very much, Andy

What is the 1930 Milit?r-Wochenblatt?

[medalnet]

What is the 1930 Milit?r-Wochenblatt?

It is a weekly circular like a newspaper reflecting on items of interest for the military. You will find the latest list of medal recipients, adds for having them mounted etc.

The listing of the newly honored soldiers was many times the basis for some statistics on orders and medals for WWI. They stopped printing the Ranklists, yet published those news in the Milit?r-Wochenblatt.

[Biro]

Great job Andy-B ... and all of you:beer:

If you or someone could find time to scan the advert, I'd love to see it...

Marshall

[Paul C]

I just purchased 2 volumes of the Milit?r-Wochenblatt from 1937 and 1937. Each contains about 25 weekly issues and each volume is over 1700 pages! It should be interesting reading. I am sure I will be doing some posts from them.

[GdC26]

Let's breathe some life into this interesting and now slightly dusty thread with a scan of (the second page of) an invoice from the estate of former Reichskanzler Michaelis, detaining Godet-Werner's prices for the sets listed. 

 

Unfortunately, page 1 of the invoice is missing, so its date is unclear, but Godet and Werner seem to have merged/started their cooperation in 1929 and Michaelis died in 1936, so the invoice will presumably date between 1929 and 1936 (and likely from between 1929 and 1933/34, as Michaelis will likely have had limited use for decorations of German states thereafter). 

See: https://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12210 on the Godet/Werner cooperation/takeover.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Michaelis for further details on Michaelis, whose estate was sold by Carsten Zeige in 2001.

 

Kind regards,

 Sandro

Edited July 30, 2022 by GdC26