Imperial Russia Badge - is this real?

[Linasl]

Hello Everyone.  I am both a collector and a seller.  Someone has proposed to me an Imperial Russian Badge and swears it is original, but cannot tell me what it is for.  It looks nice, but this is out of my area of expertise.

Can you please take a look at the photos and (1) tell me if it appears to be authentic?  and (2) if authentic, what is it for?

Greatly appreciate any and all responses.  Thanks.  Linas

[OvBacon]

Does the person swearing it is original know what it is for?.... if not they clearly should not be swearing on anything. 

[Linasl]

Hello OvBacon - I agree!

[paul wood]

dudosa

[BlackcowboyBS]

30 minutes ago, paul wood said:

dudosa

In German we have a saying: Es kommt mir spanisch vor, meaning it feels strange to me. Origin of this German idiom was the election of Karl V to be spanish King. The German noble men thought, when they saw him and his entourage: This looks spanish to me. 

So to put in short words: Keep being suspicious. 

[Claudius]

I'll speak plainly -I don't like it.

The tiny cross on the top is poorly formed and too delicate looking -it is not how the period items were done.  These were badges on uniforms and you didn't want them catching on the cloth and making fraying marks.

The main body looks poured into a form.  The scepter and orb look particularly poorly cast.

The Russian-style wingnut in the back also looks cast with the loops poorly soldered on.  The left one "slipped" when it was being attached.  And it shows false wear.  Somehow it received a deep dent.  These are finger tighten screws and it is highly unlikely that someone took a pliers to it.

The piece tries to appear has a high quality badge (with enamel parts and five attachments) but also have the lesser quality of an enlisted man's badge with the main body being so crudely made.

This is when it would be very illuminating to compare this piece with a known legitimate badge to clearly show the construction differences.    

[JapanX]

17 hours ago, Linasl said:

(1) tell me if it appears to be authentic? 

Yes, it does.

 

17 hours ago, Linasl said:

(2) if authentic, what is it for?

Commemorative badge for the 100th anniversary of the Ministry of War.

Established on May 29, 1910.

[Claudius]

2 hours ago, JapanX said:

Yes, it does.

?

I'm flummoxed.

[JapanX]

Bet this one gonna make you even more flummoxed 

Edited February 10, 2021 by JapanX

[Claudius]

? obverse please.

[JapanX]

Comparison with the previous badge will be pointless since there were quite a few manufacturers.

 

 

 

[Claudius]

That is a remarkable difference in quality.  When I look between the Orders made by Eduard and Keibel I don't see such a disparity. 

[JapanX]

21 minutes ago, Claudius said:

That is a remarkable difference in quality.  

No it isn`t.

 

Both badges made by the same technology.

 

23 minutes ago, Claudius said:

When I look between the Orders made by Eduard and Keibel I don't see such a disparity. 

This is because you are trying to compare orders that was made by official Kapitul contractors with badges that was made by private independent workshops. That's probably not a good idea.

[Trooper_D]

I wonder what kind of numbers these badges were made in? My point being, if the production run was in the many 10s or even 100s we, perhaps, shouldn’t expect to see the same quality as we find with Orders. 

[JapanX]

There were at least a dozen of different manufactures of these badges. 

For example this is how details of the badge from the Shafer workshop looks like.

 

 

 

15 minutes ago, Trooper_D said:

... perhaps, shouldn’t expect to see the same quality as we find with Orders. 

I wonder how (and why) anyone should compare officially made orders with privately made badges.

Once again: Keibel and Eduard pieces are very similiar because they were official contractors (and should follow strict Kapitul requirements).

Edited February 11, 2021 by JapanX

[Claudius]

24 minutes ago, JapanX said:

There were at least a dozen of different manufactures of these badges. 

 

Years ago I remember going to a OMSA show and a gentleman had a display of the dozen different Imp.Austrian Commemorative 2. Dezember 1873 medal.  In some cases the differences were subtle, but they were clearly from different manufacturers, perhaps across the Austrian Empire.  The gentleman believed there had to be multiple manufactures to fulfill the large number that needed to be produced. 

I have to wonder how many Commemorative badges for the 100th anniversary of the Ministry of War were needed that required multiple manufacturers?

[JapanX]

It`s not the questions of "how many badges were needed" in order to "fulfill".

It`s the question of choice.

What badge in what material and what quality one needed (or could afford).

+

Naturally there were thousands and thousands of potential cavaliers.