MORE SEEKT

[filfoster]

He's wearing a 7 place medal bar.  I make these to be:

1. IC 2nd (1914)

2. ?

3. Prussian Red Eagle 4th, with crown, w/o swords

4. Prussian Crown order 3rd w/o swords

5. Prussian officer long service cross

6. ? Some kind of China service medal?

7. Centenary Medal

[pinpon590]

2 : seems be RAO 4 with X ?

6 : yes, china medal I think too ...

 

😀

Edited November 28, 2023 by pinpon590

[VtwinVince]

You mean Seeckt?

[filfoster]

50 minutes ago, VtwinVince said:

You mean Seeckt?

Yes! My bad!

1 hour ago, pinpon590 said:

2 : seems be RAO 4 with X ?

6 : yes, china medal I think too ...

 

😀

I believe the Red Eagle 4th is in 3rd place; the 2nd place medal looks too dark.  My guess is, for now, it's the 1934 Hiindenburg Cross worn as a war decoration, as it's the only medal with swords in that shape. And, during the Weimar period, until '35, pretty much anything goes as far as ordering. 

Agree #6 is the China Medal, probably non-combatant as I don't think he took part in the action against the Boxers in 1901.

[pinpon590]

30 minutes ago, filfoster said:

I believe the Red Eagle 4th is in 3rd place; the 2nd place medal looks too dark.  My guess is, for now, it's the 1934 Hiindenburg Cross worn as a war decoration, as it's the only medal with swords in that shape. And, during the Weimar period, until '35, pretty much anything goes as far as ordering. 

 

 

Mmmmm... It seems being mounted on black / white ribbon... No ?

 

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by pinpon590

[filfoster]

1 hour ago, pinpon590 said:

 

Mmmmm... It seems being mounted on black / white ribbon... No ?

 

 

Yes, but depending on the folding of the ribbon, the 'Hindenburg Cross' ribbon could also look the same. Until someone can provide better evidence, that's what it looks like. 

[VtwinVince]

I agree that second is a HK, which makes sense as there are no other swords decorations on the bar, so peacetime awards after swords.

[filfoster]

Also, no German states awards on the bar, which supports the HK medal in the #2 spot. Since that medal was only issued in 1934, he wore it only two years, until his death at the end of 1936.

Also note the China Medal appears on a 1925 (attributed) photo on a 6 medal bar. Assume this was for work done when he was on the General Staff (appointed 1897) for the 1901 Boxer Rebellion effort. Have not seen any mention of this in online references.

This medal bar, only 7 medals but two conundrums. Very interesting to me. 

 

No comments on the slip on shoulder boards he seems to have favored on his uniform tunics.

[P.F.]

Seems he only mounted his Prussian decorations.

 

The second medal is possibly the Red Eagle Order 4th Class with Swords (on same ribbon as the Iron Cross).

Edited November 30, 2023 by P.F.

[filfoster]

1 hour ago, P.F. said:

Seems he only mounted his Prussian decorations.

 

The second medal is possibly the Red Eagle Order 4th Class with Swords (on same ribbon as the Iron Cross).

The Red Eagle 4th with crown, is the 3rd position medal, in front of the Crown Order 3rd. 

[VtwinVince]

Someone must have a list of all his decorations. I don't think he got the RAO4mS for China.

[filfoster]

On 30/11/2023 at 18:30, VtwinVince said:

Someone must have a list of all his decorations. I don't think he got the RAO4mS for China.

Probably not. I have a rangeliste for 1930 (?), I'll try to post. I have no idea what he got the RAO4mS for. All I can deduce is that an identification of the medals on the bar in the photo above show the 1934 Hindenburg Cross in an unusual placement and the China Medal, presumably for non-combatants, likely for some work he performed as a General Staff officer during or preceding the Boxer Rebellion.

 

NOTE: The Red Eagle 4th is with Crown, w/o swords as mentioned above, and clarified in subsequent posts.

 

Edited December 2, 2023 by filfoster

[VtwinVince]

There you go, no such award for China.

[filfoster]

1 hour ago, VtwinVince said:

There you go, no such award for China.

 

I understand that not all campaign awards are listed in the Rangeliste.

Edited December 1, 2023 by filfoster

[VtwinVince]

I don't get your point, an RAO4mS would have been listed with precedence in that list.

[filfoster]

2 hours ago, VtwinVince said:

I don't get your point, an RAO4mS would have been listed with precedence in that list.

It is. It's the second award listed after the PLM with oak leaves, and before the Crown Order 3rd class

 

NOTE: The Red Eagle 4th is with Crown, w/o swords.

Edited December 2, 2023 by filfoster

[Glenn J]

Just to clarify, Generaloberst von Seeckt did NOT receive an RAO4X, he had the RAO4Kr (i,e, with crown).  The crown  was awarded to his already held RAO4 on 13 September 1911. He was awarded the China commemorative medal in STEEL as an Hauptmann in the general staff of XVII. Armee-Korps on 19 December 1901.

 

Regards

Glenn

[filfoster]

24 minutes ago, Glenn J said:

Just to clarify, Generaloberst von Seeckt did NOT receive an RAO4X, he had the RAO4Kr (i,e, with crown).  The crown  was awarded to his already held RAO4 on 13 September 1911. He was awarded the China commemorative medal in STEEL as an Hauptmann in the general staff of XVII. Armee-Korps on 19 December 1901.

 

Regards

Glenn

GlennJ: Yes, thank you. I originally described it properly in the first post. I went off track and wrote 'swords' when I meant 'crown'.  Thank you for confirming the details of the non-combatant China Denkmünze.  So the medal bar shown in the original post is:

1. Iron cross (1914) 2nd class

2. 'Hindenburg Cross' of 1934

3. Red Eagle 4th class with crown, w/o swords

4. Crown Order 3rd Class w/o swords

5. Prussian officer's 25 year long service cross

6. China medal, steel, for non-combatants

7. Centenary Medal.

 

I still find it an interesting detail that he appears to have worn the slip-on style shoulder boards, a personal preference apparently.

Thanks to all who have contributed. If anyone still disagrees with these identifications, I hope they will post and provide some supporting information.

Edited December 2, 2023 by filfoster

[VtwinVince]

My point was that the RAO4mS is a Schwerterdekoration, which outranks any civil grade on the bar. The RAO4mdK is of course a peacetime award and something completely different.

[filfoster]

16 hours ago, VtwinVince said:

My point was that the RAO4mS is a Schwerterdekoration, which outranks any civil grade on the bar. The RAO4mdK is of course a peacetime award and something completely different.

Yes, understood. My mistaken use of the Red Eagle description 'with swords', rather than 'with crown', following some replies using that erroneous term, when the medal had been correctly identified in the initial and preceding posts, was unfortunate. Clearly, the photos show the crown and no swords.

Edited December 3, 2023 by filfoster

[filfoster]

OK, My re-created von Seeckt medal bar. You can see how easily the Hindenburg Cross medal ribbon can be mistaken for Iron Cross ribbon, especially in a black and white photo. 

Edited December 17, 2023 by filfoster