Rudolf Junker - Class and award date of the Schwarzburgisches Ehrenkreuz

[Kriegsmarine Admiral]

Hello,

 

Can anyone with access to the Schwarzburg award rolls help me?

The Personalakte of Konteradmiral Rudolf Junker states he was awarded the "Fürstlich-Schwarzburgisches Ehrenkreuz mit Schwertern" on "7.11.1917".

However, no class is indicated. Can anyone help me find out the exact class he was awarded?

Perhaps the award date in the award rolls is also different.

 

Thanks!

 

[Deutschritter]

I was hoping for a SEK3, or at least a SEK 4, but the Ranglisten der Deutschen Reichsmarine strangely only have the EK 2 and 1 listed. 

[Kriegsmarine Admiral]

6 minutes ago, Deutschritter said:

I was hoping for a SEK3, or at least a SEK 4, but the Ranglisten der Deutschen Reichsmarine strangely only have the EK 2 and 1 listed. 

That's correct.

I hope @Dave Danner will see this thread.

As I understand he has the Schwarzburg award rolls. Perhaps he can help.

[Deutschritter]

I thought, I saw a picture with the Spange to his EK II, but this is not on the list. Let me add: This site has his promotion date as Oberleutnant zur See on 14 May 1921, but Rangliste 1922 states 7 January 1920   ... maybe patent or RDA? Thanks! 

Edited January 24 by Deutschritter

[Kriegsmarine Admiral]

56 minutes ago, Deutschritter said:

I thought, I saw a picture with the Spange to his EK II, but this is not on the list. Let me add: This site has his promotion date as Oberleutnant zur See on 14 May 1921, but Rangliste 1922 states 7 January 1920   ... maybe patent or RDA? Thanks! 

He did not have the Spange (1939) zum EK II. Klasse.

 

14.05.1921 Oberleutnant zur See mit RDA. vom 07.01.1920 (25)

[Dave Danner]

He is not in the rolls from either Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt or Schwarzburg-Sondershausen. With one exception, the only naval officers with the Fürstlich Schwarzburgisches Ehrenkreuz were born in one of the principalities. The exception was Karl Freiherr von der Recke, whose father was Staatsminister in Rudolstadt.

[Kriegsmarine Admiral]

18 minutes ago, Dave Danner said:

He is not in the rolls from either Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt or Schwarzburg-Sondershausen. With one exception, the only naval officers with the Fürstlich Schwarzburgisches Ehrenkreuz were born in one of the principalities. The exception was Karl Freiherr von der Recke, whose father was Staatsminister in Rudolstadt.

Thank you.

Do you have any idea about the class Junker was awarded? I was thinking it's most likely the 3. Klasse.

 

I know of another naval officer who had the Fürstlich Schwarzburgisches Ehrenkreuz. This is Hans Seebohm, who had the Ehrenkreuz 2. Klasse (pre-war) and the Ehrenkreuz 1. Klasse mit Schwertern that was awarded during the war. He was born in Dillingen, Saar.

[Dave Danner]

As I said, Junker is not in the rolls. I wasn't counting Seebohm among native Schwarzburgers because senior officers in positions like his were not held to the same nationality requirements as recipients of lower classes, who had to be natives of the principalities or commanders of troops in their contingents.

 

Eleven naval officers received the SEK3X from Schwarzburg-Sondershausen.

 

Besides Seebohm's SEK1X, Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt awarded 9 SEK3X to junior naval officers and 3 SEK4X to Oberdeckoffiziere.

[Kriegsmarine Admiral]

2 hours ago, Dave Danner said:

As I said, Junker is not in the rolls. I wasn't counting Seebohm among native Schwarzburgers because senior officers in positions like his were not held to the same nationality requirements as recipients of lower classes, who had to be natives of the principalities or commanders of troops in their contingents.

 

Eleven naval officers received the SEK3X from Schwarzburg-Sondershausen.

 

Besides Seebohm's SEK1X, Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt awarded 9 SEK3X to junior naval officers and 3 SEK4X to Oberdeckoffiziere.

Yes, I understand Junker is not in the rolls.

 

But since the SEKx is listed among his awards in the Personalakte, he must've been awarded it.

I wanted to know your guess for the class of the SEKx he was most likely awarded?

Edited January 26 by Kriegsmarine Admiral

[Deutschritter]

We will probably never know. Here a small extra: Walter Rudolf Junker (12 March 1895 – 21 June 1980), son of Otto Junker and Anna Karoline, née Morat. I was not able to find out if he was married or had children. 

[Dave Danner]

The class he was most likely awarded was no class, since he did not receive the award. The class he appears to have claimed to receive was, of course, the third class, since as I noted above, that was the class awarded to junior officers.

[Kriegsmarine Admiral]

Here is the proof that Junker was awarded the Fürstlich Schwarzburgisches Ehrenkreuz III. Klasse mit Schwertern on 7 November 1917. His estate is currently being auctioned here: https://www.ratisbons.com/de/61st-contemporary-history-auction/junker-rudolf-konteradmiral-german-cross-in-silver-winner-grouping.html?searchterm=admiral

 

Two documents from 1936 that confirm he was awarded it on 7 November 1917. However, no class is indicated.

The definitive proof are his medal and ribbon bars, which show the Ehrenkreuz III. Klasse mit Schwertern.

[Claudio]

Hi everybody 

I saw that bar… totally wrong with all 4 long service awards. It looks like it was assembled post war at best.

 

cheers

Claudio

[VtwinVince]

I agree with Claudio, sometimes you'll see multiple DA's being worn contrary to regulations, but that is ridiculous.

[Kriegsmarine Admiral]

On 17/08/2024 at 17:42, VtwinVince said:

I agree with Claudio, sometimes you'll see multiple DA's being worn contrary to regulations, but that is ridiculous.

Sure it's against regulations.

But here is a photo of Kapitän zur See (Ing.) Ernst Dorn wearing all 4 on his medal bar.

[Deutschritter]

Presumably the transition period, when the regulations were still interpreted liberally.