Luftwaffe Nietsche & Guenther splittergoggles..

[François SAEZ]

Like Jos my "guts" say not for my collection (even if I do have a pair) but on the other hand everybody is saying fakes of type II and type III are all around but in fact nobody can show a fake - I mean that in fact we are obliged to deduct that some are fake because they don't match wath we know.

My 2 remarks are:

Why copy N&G with clear lenses when they are far less seller than "smoked" ones that everybody want? Not sure I get the logic.

Even if I go with the general concensus, sometimes I wonder if we don't make a mistake by saying, they are not ok because they don't have the hinge we know (example only) - Why aving 4 type of N&G during the war and not have variation within the types?

Again, it is only my opinion but in resume (for me):

Type II existed, they are early war, I don't know for sure how they came packaged (if they came packaged).

Now what I am not 100% sure (even if I tend to agree):

Type II are said to be heavily faked (including the small book)

As for the time being I never saw a warime pic with clear lenses on type II N&G - but I want to stay open mind for the time being.

My advice to "beginners", for the time being ONLY go for "smoked" type II with the hinge like the ones described by Jos and shown in wartime pics.

[Jos Le Conté]

I agree that we have less to compare with,'cause we don't have the chance to handle or study a couple of hundred of these.

Did N&G only make these or were there other companies involved also ?

If so,I can imagine small variations can be found..,but even if N&G made them only I can imagine a thing like that.

I'm open minded too concerning quite some things at the moment.

Why copy N&G with clear lenses when they are far less seller than "smoked" ones that everybody want? Not sure I get the logic.

A thing that comes to mind is that producing clear lenses is much easier than creating the rather special color of the Ultra-sin lenses maybe ?..

Another thing to keep in mind is :

These recent fakes are only sold by certain people on Ebay,80% of their other stuff are fakes too..

If these goggles were originals in mint condition I think they would find their way to the collector much easier for much more money....

On Ebay they fetch between 200/400 Euro.

I'd gladly have a mint original for that money..,maybe 2.

The very moment one of these is sold another one is added to the auction..,howmuch of these can we expect to come..?

The people selling these also have loads of the IMO fake Wagner,Cellowaro and Auer rubber goggles..also in cardboard box..

Unfortunately and luckily these have errors in the label on the lid of the box and the goggles don't match the type of box either .

Even if I go with the general concensus, sometimes I wonder if we don't make a mistake by saying, they are not ok because they don't have the hinge we know (example only) - Why having 4 type of N&G during the war and not have variation within the types?

I agree,we don't know for sure about the hinges and types ,for now the majority ,if not all 2nd types on era pics have the "thin" type..

I also think there're variations,but for us to detect them among originals.

About the fakes of 2nd type in general:

Poor fakes already existed. (I think I've pics in my files and will post them here a little later)

I think we can expect the better ones coming now..

The fakers have their minds on flighstuff lately,even small equipment.

They wouldn't go through all this trouble if the stuff was much cheaper IMO.

Jos.

Edited June 1, 2005 by Jos Le Cont

[François SAEZ]

Wise words Jos

The only thing I still don't get is why selling fake type II with clear lenses if almost everybody think they never exist with clear lenses = you will not sell them. Althought why produce clear ones when dark ones exist in fake (are supposed to exist).

We go now to the possibility that N&G (or war subsidiaries) produced them post war (maybe even now) for an other country, for civil associations (gliders.............) we will then NOT have fake goggles but post war ones.

This theory I like

[Jos Le Conté]

The only thing I still don't get is why selling fake type II with clear lenses if almost everybody think they never exist with clear lenses = you will not sell them. Althought why produce clear ones when dark ones exist in fake ,are supposed to exist.

I've no clue..,but don't forget that many people don't know much and some even don't care what they've or buy..

But you've a point here.

We go now to the possibility that N&G (or war subsidiaries) produced them post war (maybe even now) for an other country, for civil associations (gliders.............) we will then NOT have fake goggles but post war ones.

That's a theory that has a chance.

Why not ?

N&G still exists,why stop producing a good concept if there's any market ?

But how will we find out ?

Maybe postwar catalogs,prospectus etc ?

I know there're old N&G catalogs,but they show spectacles etc..

A rumor I've heard is that the Finnish airforce used wartime N&G after war and some of these went to dealers a while ago (don't know how much) .

It's a rumor only and I only mention it as a note and a possibility.

This "postwar" theory is another thing to find out,but how ?

Another point I forgot to mention :

ALL 2nd types I've seen were marked 2 for the size.

The little booklet however mentions 3 sizes measured from hinge to hinge.

I've never seen a pair marked 1 or 3 though.

If they exist they must be very rare IMO.

Jos.

Edited June 1, 2005 by Jos Le Cont

[François SAEZ]

ALL 2nd types I've seen were marked 2 for the size.

The little booklet however mentions 3 sizes measured from hinge to hinge.

I've never seen a pair marked 1 or 3 though.

If they exist they must be very rare IMO.

Jos.

←

same here, nerver saw 1 or 3 and my question should be, why no fake 1 or 3 ??? If rarer, they should drive more money, no?

Does N&G or " NiGuRa" have a site? Can someone post the site, maybe they have a catalog and we will have surprises.

[Simon F]

Here are their sites Fran?ois

http://www.nigura-metzler.de/styleguide/gesichtstypen.htm (German)

http://www.nigura-metzler.com/nigura/e_nig.htm (English)

http://www.nigura.net/Nigura/srv/ron_teaser.main

Hope this helps

Edited June 2, 2005 by devonrex2003

[François SAEZ]

Here are their sites Fran?ois

http://www.nigura-metzler.de/styleguide/gesichtstypen.htm  (German)

http://www.nigura-metzler.com/nigura/e_nig.htm    (English)

http://www.nigura.net/Nigura/srv/ron_teaser.main

Hope this helps

←

Many thanks Simon, next step is to writte them (in English or German = we need a volonteer) ) and to ask them if they still produce pilot goggles what type, even send them pics of some war models and ask them if they produce them after the war ................

[J Temple-West]

These pictures were recently sent to me... Fran?ois and I have had a chat about them and thought it would be interesting to add them to the thread, for comments.

As can be seen, they have clear lenses.

Tin/steel case.

[J Temple-West]

Various views of the goggles.

[J Temple-West]

..2

[J Temple-West]

..3

[J Temple-West]

..4

[J Temple-West]

..5

[J Temple-West]

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[J Temple-West]

..7

[J Temple-West]

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[J Temple-West]

And lastly, the maker mark.

[John Cooper]

I hope this topic continues - I am following it on both forums. If things go the way I plan I hope to post a picture of my own and provide another example.

Additionally I troed to obtain some information and what seems to be considered a fake set but was unable to obain the pair or any additional pictures.

Regards

John

[francisco v.]

Hello,

And, what about the nosebridge piece? Uneven ones are usually associated with fakes but paying attention to this photo I'd say that one ending are more sharply pointed.

Regards

Fran

[francisco v.]

This example because its extensive use I'd say is original (or not?). Copies most usually are found minty.

Note the asimetrical shape of the nosebridge.

Regards

Fran

[John Cooper]

I agree or should I say I have changed my mind - I hope to post some scans of a set that has the uneven nose bridge that came directly from a JG 26 pilot. I will try to post these before Christmas.

Cheers

[J Temple-West]

Looking forward to seeing those, John.

[John Cooper]

As promised here are the pictures from a JG 26 Pilot - sorry if they are a bit blurry by the owner did his best!

I am posting some additional pictures - I have them in larger size if needed just ask and I will email them to you.

Regards

John - Merry Christmas to all!

[Jos Le Conté]

Looks good..

Here's mine.

Jos.

[Jos Le Conté]

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