Kev in Deva Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 (edited) Hallo Gentlemen Opinions sought on this offering:http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Iron-Cross-1870-1st-...1QQcmdZViewItemKevin in Deva. Edited July 2, 2006 by Kev in Deva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Murphy Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Kevin, I believe it to be an original cross, but the pin and hinge appear to have been replaced at some time. AS such I do not believe it is worth the price asked. I do not believe the 1813 EK2 he has for sale is real. It looks like like shaved 1914. Usual poor fuzzy photos of that one.Dan Murphy1813 EK2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Y Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 (edited) I don't know enough about 1870 EKI's to form a solid opinion, but the core, especially the "8' doesn't match any of mt EKII's. The seller seems to be a goldmine of misinformation, too. "For an unknown reason the decorations were very much smaller, however they are larger than the 'Prinzen' size."His 1813 seems to be the ultrarare "peachskin" type Is NEF a misspelling of naff? Edited July 2, 2006 by Tom Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe campbell Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 i am inclined to agree with dan...the hinge/pin on the EK 1 are replaced, which in and of itselfis not a problem for me.the EK 2 on the other hand is an altered 1914. rather nicely done, but not legitimate nevertheless.joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregM Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Isn't this cross one of the ( 9th bead ) crosses. There has been a lot of discussion as to wheather or not those are original crosses. To the best of my recollection that debate has not been settled. Is it me or does the oak leaves on the 1813 have the bent stem like the 1914s instead of thestraight stem more commonly seen on 1813s?Just my 2 cents,Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biro Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Yes this is the 'glowing 9th bead' cross........and therefore, not one for me.The hybrid "is it an I is it a J"? version of the maker mark is also contentious to say the least... if you want a Wagner piece Kevin (and they are EXTREMELY scarce) then my suggestion would be you find one with a mark exactly like this...[attachmentid=45738]Alternatively, Weitze has a beautiful Godet, but wants a little too much for it.JMO..Marshall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev in Deva Posted July 3, 2006 Author Share Posted July 3, 2006 Yes this is the 'glowing 9th bead' cross........and therefore, not one for me.The hybrid "is it an I is it a J"? version of the maker mark is also contentious to say the least... if you want a Wagner piece Kevin (and they are EXTREMELY scarce) then my suggestion would be you find one with a mark exactly like this...[attachmentid=45738]Alternatively, Weitze has a beautiful Godet, but wants a little too much for it.JMO..MarshallHallo Gents thank you for your useful and informative input, looks like I will pass on it and save my money for another day, again many thanks Kevin in Deva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev in Deva Posted July 3, 2006 Author Share Posted July 3, 2006 Hallo Gentlemen Just receieved the follwing from the seller in request for better pictures, and its only fair to add them here;Hi,As requested please find clearer pictures of the 1813 Iron Cross also we show pictures comparing the 1813 and the 1914 Iron Cross clearly showing the difference between the 2 showing that this is indeed not a converted 1914 Iron Cross 2nd Class.With regards to size the Cross actually measures the correct size for 1813 39mmx39mm what we are saying is that the silver frame is smaller than the earlier 1813 Iron Crosses however on looking at the Iron Time book the bible of Iron Crosses the frame on some of the early ones look very similar to the one we are offering on ebay so as we say it is all a matter of opinion we state this is made in the 1870 period however could well be earlier and a Cross of the period.Hope this clarifies everything for you and if you bid on this item good luck in your bidding. Best Regards, Malcolm GordonEmail: malcolm@cocollector.co.ukMobile: 0976266293 GORDONS MEDALS LTD. G14-15, Grays in the Mews1-7 Davies MewsDavies Street LondonW1K 5AB. UKTel: + 44 (0) 20 7495 0900 Fax: + 44 (0) 20 7495 0115Web: http://www.cocollector.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev in Deva Posted July 3, 2006 Author Share Posted July 3, 2006 (edited) Hallo Gentlemen Just receieved the follwing from the seller in request for better pictures, and its only fair to add them here;Hi,As requested please find clearer pictures of the 1813 Iron Cross also we show pictures comparing the 1813 and the 1914 Iron Cross clearly showing the difference between the 2 showing that this is indeed not a converted 1914 Iron Cross 2nd Class.With regards to size the Cross actually measures the correct size for 1813 39mmx39mm what we are saying is that the silver frame is smaller than the earlier 1813 Iron Crosses however on looking at the Iron Time book the bible of Iron Crosses the frame on some of the early ones look very similar to the one we are offering on ebay so as we say it is all a matter of opinion we state this is made in the 1870 period however could well be earlier and a Cross of the period.Hope this clarifies everything for you and if you bid on this item good luck in your bidding. Best Regards, Malcolm GordonEmail: malcolm@cocollector.co.ukMobile: 0976266293 GORDONS MEDALS LTD. G14-15, Grays in the Mews1-7 Davies MewsDavies Street LondonW1K 5AB. UKTel: + 44 (0) 20 7495 0900 Fax: + 44 (0) 20 7495 0115Web: http://www.cocollector.co.ukMaybe the seller should have put some of these photos on the original auction page!!Kevin in Deva Edited July 3, 2006 by Kev in Deva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 If that 1813 is fake, it's one of the best I've seen yet... the core "grain" looks like a ca. 1870-1895 one... ?????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Williamson Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Isn't that the "Z" (or "N") maker stamp on the ring of the 1813 cross ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Murphy Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 (edited) Gordon, Yup, sure is. My vote is for an N. For the information value, here is an 1813 EK2 I bought many years ago. I now believe it is a fake similar to the above, though not as well done. Notice how uneven the edge of the frame is where it has been ground away unevenly. Edited July 3, 2006 by Daniel Murphy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Murphy Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Fake part 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Murphy Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 And the most telling pic. Notice how the edges are rounded and the beading is worn down on the sides of the beaded edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimZ Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Not really my field - Very crisp polished silver for an 1870 and the rust could be a lovely touching touch. No other apparant markings. Tis? Tis Not? Tis? Tis Not?........My guess Tis Not? Gentlemen...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe campbell Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 just for the record...the '14 EK 2 came with a WIDEvariety of weights and measurements.i have a long ago published article nicely demonstrating this phenomenon,and will scare it up.jimzammit - i'm afraid 'tis not....joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekhunter Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 Not really my field - Very crisp polished silver for an 1870 and the rust could be a lovely touching touch. No other apparant markings. Tis? Tis Not? Tis? Tis Not?........My guess Tis Not? Gentlemen......Tis the so-called "Latvian" made cross. Probably made in eastern Europe somewhere. Made in the last few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now