interesting ribbon bar with unknown ribbons....

[HeikoGrusdat]

Hello all,

here is my mysterious ribbon bar for today...... can someone please name the last 3 ribbons for me??? Second from last is red/yellow-gold, last one is white-red and third from last is white with red stripes and oakleaves....

the ribbons are overlapping and it is a bar witout needle system for sewing on....

any help is welcome...

thanks in advance

Heiko

[HeikoGrusdat]

and the reverse...

[Naxos]

second last: Lippe-Schaumburg Hausorden?

Regards, Hardy

[Naxos]

third last: Eisener Halbmond f?r Nichtk?mpfer? (but the Eichenlaub doesn't make sense)

Edited May 5, 2007 by Naxos

[Great Dane]

Isn't the third last the Prussian Red Eagle? (funny position on the bar though...)

The last could be the Japanese Order of the Rising Sun.

/Mike

Edited May 5, 2007 by Great Dane

[Naxos]

The last one looks like: Orden der aufgehenden Sonne, Japan

Hardy

[Deruelle]

Hi,

For me the 4th ribbon is from Lippe Detmold : "Lippische Rose, Orden f?r Kunst und Wissenschaft" medal 2nd class with oakleaves. In the Nimmergut's book it is the Number 1171 and ribbon 267.

Regards

Christophe

[Deruelle]

The last ribbon is always from Lippe Detmold, it is the ribbon for Leopold Orden cross without crown (mle 1906-1910). OEK 1145 and ribbon 264.

Regards

Christophe

PS : Solomon and Rick R can help you to id this ribbon bar.

[Naxos]

Hi,

For me the 4th ribbon is from Lippe Detmold : "Lippische Rose, Orden f?r Kunst und Wissenschaft" medal 2nd class with oakleaves. In the Nimmergut's book it is the Number 1171 and ribbon 267.

Regards

Christophe

Yes Now the bar makes perfect sense

Hardy

[Guest Rick Research]

And would Heiko like to know whose it was?

Uh huh?

Well, you must let me use this one in the updated Ribbon Bar Article then, since will never see a SILVER "Z?hringen Lion" oakleaves device again-- and don't ever put THIS one up on eBay, OK?

There were only 39 men with that class of the Lippe Rose, which rather simplifies hunting, now that I've transcribed all the rolls and cross-indexed the awards.

VERY interesting indeed. A Jewish civil servant's bar.

None other than Georg Epstein, ennobled as Georg von Eppstein between 1913-15.

Born in Breslau 20 March 1874, he was the man responsible for publishing our favorite period reference source for civilians, the German Orders Almanac. He was also, presumably, Jewish, and though found with the rank of "Oberleutnant" during the war, is NEVER found in pre-war Ranglisten-- hence my assumption.

Professor Doctor of Philosophy Epstein worked his way up to being Chief of the Civil Cabinet of Lippe-Detmold, with titles Wirklicher Geheimer Rat and Geheimer Kabinettsrat. In 1915 he was "Oberleutnant" and Orderly Officer of Generalkommando VII. Armeekorps, in his spare time.

Southwest Africa Medal in Steel, check. Right there in his own Orders Almanac entry.

That would certainly be a home service noncombatant "black-white" Iron Cross since he never actually left his senior Lippe civil administration job. Many many many foreign Orders and awards. What this is has to be the TOP ROW of multiple rows, or he just wore the most important stuff. He also had the Prussian Kaiser Wilhelm Centenary Medal (!) and the Lippe 1905 lawsuit Medal... but what concerns us here are his ORDERS.

Kleindekorations, apparently.

LDH4a 16.07.1903 (returned) as Dr.phil. Schrioftsteller "Dtsch Ordens Almanach"

Lippe Rose 2nd with Oakleaves 9.9.1908 as Literary Director of the "Neuen Politischen Korrespondenz" and "Deutschen Ordens-Almanach" in Berlin

Leopold 2 with Crown 30.01.1912 (returned presumably... but continue on. That is what the last ribbon has to be, even with no crown device) as Professor in Berlin-Wilmersdorf

LDH2 30.05.13 as Geheimer Kabinettsrat in Detmold (skipping any grade of the 3rd class) (returned)

LDH2X 18.10.1915 as Geh-Kabinettsrat u Oberleutnant Ordonnanz Offizier Gen Kdo VII. AK, in Detmold (!!!!!!!!!!!!!) (returned)

LDH1X 17.02.1917 as Chef Zivilkabinett, Wirkl Geh-Rat u Geh-Kabinettsrat in Detmold (!!!!!!!)

Leopold 1 11.11.1918 Chef Geheimer Zivilkabinett und Wirkl-Geheimer Rat, Detmold

Sooooooo, we have a couple of months in 1915 ribbon bar here. Don't know why there's no crown on the Leopold ribbon...

but then THAT was a pinback, and his Honor Cross was a Commander neck grade...

so this is perhaps being discreetly understated on a military uniform of such low rank. Fancy dress would have been all well and good, but as an Orderly Officer (no matter how nominal or temporary) he wouldn't have wanted those sorts of things banging around on his daily DUTY uniform. It would have made all those General Staff Majors jealous.

No other person possible. And lest anyone doubt "Epstein" and "von Eppstein" were indeed All The Same Man-- the wonderful thing about Lippe-Detmold's rolls is that each entry REPEATS his full birth data, Breslau 30 March 1874. No mistakes.

[Naxos]

You da man Rick, excuse my feeble dabbling in your metier

Hardy

[Guest Rick Research]

You want to know the WORST part?

Cate Blanchett will STILL not give up everything for me.

I know, incredible.

[Naxos]

You want to know the WORST part?

Cate Blanchett will STILL not give up everything for me.

I know, incredible.

Now you pushing it

[David S]

Cate Blanchett will STILL not give up everything for me.

I wondered why until I saw a list of her movies . . . she played Galadriel in the LOTR trilogy.

Ricky . . . you have patience and can wait her out and wear her down with your abilities and Yankee charm.

Actually you'll probably find a family connection for you and her and then what . . .

I myself will wait until Jenny Agutter is available again !!!!

[HeikoGrusdat]

WWWWWWWWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

thank you very much Rick!!!!!!!!!!!! I thought that it was something like this with this Lippe and Detmold connection, but something special like that???!!!!! Great job, and I promise you : this bar will never been seen on ebay - of course!!!!!

I think Solomon is still sleeping....nothing from you???

thank you very much!!!!!

Heiko

[HeikoGrusdat]

ah Rick.......and of course you are allowed to use this one and everything else from my collection for your article, your book, your movie...... whatever you are planing to do!!!!

[webr55]

Georg Johannes Friedrich von Eppstein, raised to "Freiherr" in November 1918. An internet search confirms that he was Jewish and that the Nazi party apparently took issue with this late second ennoblement. It seems that he emigrated to the Netherlands after 1933, because he published something there on "Prins Bernhard" in Dutch in 1936. Or maybe it was just printed by a Dutch publisher.

[Solomon]

I think Solomon is still sleeping....nothing from you???

Heiko

WOW!

Very nice ribbonbar and a unique one, too

Rick did the work already, it?s from Georg Epstein...

BUT...there is something special, I wrote on August Sch?fer?s ribbonbar!

Epstein wasn?t allowed to wear the ribbon of the Leopoldorden single without the decoration (-> see statutes).

Very interesting, that he did it...maybe this is the hint for the missing crown on the ribbon.

Congrats! Now I?m a bit jealous

Solomon

Edited May 6, 2007 by Solomon

[saschaw]

Now why is this bar a good one and mine has to be a fake, hum?!

@Heiko:

I think it was wayyyyy to expensive. I missed to bid on and thought it'll go uuup in price "a bit" more.

I didn't like the seller and had some serious doubts, but if you all say it's fine, I'm okay with it.

[Stogieman]

My (Truly) Evil Twin? still has not seen "Notes On A Scandal"

[Guest Rick Research]

And now Timo has it-- and I hope is going to KEEP it. :rolleyes: