saschaw

Wow. One thing to add: his first MVO, apparently for China, was not an actual "IV. Klasse mit Schwertern" but the old, pre-1905 "Ritterkreuz II. Klasse mit Schwertern". One of those without the flames, completely in gold.

Thanks Rick. I think I've not yet shown my favorite Feldwebel portrait here. Being one of those 2,111 he has a double 1864 with MEZ2 and Austrian Bravery Medal, didn't participate in 1866 to be back in 1870/71 - and stayed in the military for decades. "Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen", "Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen in Gold" (gold medal that predates the "Kreuz des...") and "Kreuz der Inhaber des HOH" followed... I'm missing some references for stuff like that, but - is there a chance to identify him? The combination has to be unique, I guess.

Wow. Congratulation. To all collectors out there. Could you please give the numbers for 1864, too? Just to compare. I think those were less, weren't they? Tom, is that written at the MEZ or at the KVMs? Will take a look later. Eric, very nice medal. I don't know the mark but I think your medal is an early one, from 1864/66 period.

Can an inoffical award held to identify someone? Well, at least a bit. From Roth's 402 wearers of the small golden merit medal only some hand full artillery men remain. Most were infantry and I don't think those would wear that cross. Of that hand full only very few - or just one? - has the additional W?rttemberg MVM, and at least the class of long service award gives it. Unique combination - but no way to narow him down.

Interresting bar, thanks for showing. No, both are awarded ones. But the question is... Well Beau, you're pretty right, there are NO awards of the Big Golden Merit medal on that ribbon known. There might have been some towards wars end that noone knows andf noone has proof for. Maybe you have ones. I have never seen the small golden medal (on that ribbon) without the silver one. Unaware of what for the Big Golden might have been given for I would assume it would rather come in a trio of all classes. No proof for that, just a thought. The bar looks fair and not played with. No doubts about it. I'd say there are two possibilities: it may be one that was awarded and noone has a document or a list for, or it may be a foolish, alter gilt replacement for a Small Golden one! The bar dates into the early 30s when noone minded. Without a name to the bar we cannot proof anything, unfortunally. However, nice and interresting Baden bar.

Nice thread, nice medals and a really nice medal bar, thanks for showing. I really appreciate your knowledge but have never seen any proof for that. Do you have or know any? Please don't mix up the Prussian MEZ2, the Prussian Kriegerverdienstmedaille and the (German) Kriegerverdienstmedaille that was instituted in four classes for Black soldiers in the colonies. Those are three totally different awards. However two look absoluetly the same... :rolleyes:

Woohooo, Walldorf-Astoria uses the wrong ribbon on the Z?hringer L?we merit cross... :speechless: I think the additional ring on the W?rttemberg merit cross is an added one, for better mounting.

I'm pretty convinced now it is Schuler's bar. In an old "Orden und Ehrenzeichen" (#38 of German "JOMSA") I found Schuler's medal bar, with a perfectly research by Peter Ohm-Hironymussen on him. The Schaumburg ribbon apparently was used as a close enough for Mecklenburg-Strelitz' Kriegervereinsmedaille Schuler was awarded in 1908 as Vorsitzender of Kavallerieverein Dessau. Grand Duke Adolf Friedrich VI. of Mecklenburg-Strelitz' mother was from Dessau, and there's the link. Schuler was born in Stuttgart but later lived and worked in Dessau. However, I have no idea why he is not listed at Bretzendorfer. Odd story, and yet fully researched...

I do not know who won the eBay auction, but I know a fellow member of this forum has a Godet made buttonaire with blue ribbon (LD2?), SEHO, Waldeck and Lippe. I'm pretty sure those (bar and button) are a set... and with the knowledge of the addtional, later awards/ribbons on the bar identifiable as well?

Mulit-medal: yes, eight on this on. Overlapping: no, the ribbons are "full", but only about 4 mm each. One-piece ribbon? Yes, it is. Special order for the exactely one who had all those awards, but of course they had to produce more than the few centimeter SM ("Seine Majest?t") did need. And that's what morons are making from those ribbons left in the stock.

That really was a moron who spilt that unique group. It was offered at Thies' auction in ~2007 and I said to Solomon he should buy it - to prevent what happened, as if I had known it before... Thanks for identifying my "bar", Rick. I knew it before, the ribbon is show on Nimmergut's B?nderkatalog, last page - worn in the button whole. I don't think those were ever thought to be worn as a ribbon bar, and I'm pretty sure it is just a piece of ribbon someone decided to make a "bar" from. This might get a moron thread, talking yet about two... Anymore GMIC people who were at the show and bought someting? ;)

Very nice bars, Claudio! Have you been there on Friday? I've been there yesterday, but couldn't find anything but a tiny ribbon bar. However a great show as I meet some dealers and collectors, even some I did not know by now personally. I think I have seen the Lippe bar before. It started some years ago in a huge lot with medal bar and dozens of ribbon bars and buttonaires in a huge combination case, but then was split thru all winds via eBay. What a shame... but still a great bar, nonetheless. Here's my "just three centimeters" Stuttgart find:

I'm not aware of any citations given to the soldiers (Baden is not Bavaria, those exist) nor can I imagine the family find's anything on it. So here's the entry from Zelosko's vol. 3:

Maybe, but who knows. At least there's more thread, and the ribbon is sewn very different. It is cut-thru on the top while the other three are only folded. Maybe that Z?hringer was used to replace something else - a white/black or black/white EK... ? The bar would then make much more sense, as an old NCO's bar. A Baden officer or officer in a Baden unit who was in service in 1897 would have received a Baden 1902 medal - while a NCO would not, unless he was yet in service for some more years (eight or nine to 1902). Altered bar, played with? I do not mind, but would really like to "know" it. And as I cannot really _know_ it, I would at least have some more opinons on it. Thank you! :)

Very nice bar. Do you yet have his citation? ;)

Is that one for sale currently... ? Get it! It was discussed here before, I think we agreed it is good - and almost that rare that there's a chance to identify him. Or am I totally wrong? I just wonder why the owner sold it...

You're right Uwe, those badges look the same just with another text.

Hard price, unusual combination, I'm not sure about the bar - but that Z?hringer is lovely. However, could we discuss my bar in my thread? I honestly cannot imagine the pin can be repaired like this on a bar that has yet it's ribbon. From that point of view the bar has to be put together, or completely resewn. And without provenance, there's no actual difference.

Seems to be a "wehrtauglich" or "1 Jahr zur?ck" or "Kavallerie" or "Infanterie" badge: a "Musterungs" badge! Sorry, no idea what that is called in English...

Ah, that is now ideed a Malta order award? I used to have one before at a W?rttemberg bar, but as it had no red cross connection I though it were the Detachement Randow award that "recycled" the Maltese ribbon. With this 2nd W?rttemberg bar I though it may rather be a W?rttemberg Red Cross award. But the closest didn't come to mind... However, with a Wilhelmskreuz without swords the wearer was not a military person. That's very unfortunally, as foreign awards to W?rttemberg military persons have been published by a Mr. Krause. On that list just ONE Maltese order in WWI, so we can guess how many there were in total to W?rttemberg... Rick, did you notice the prongs(?) on the maltese ribbon are not rusted while the others are? Do you now why? Hmm, noone can know... that single on is aluminium, the others are steel! However, the bar does look untouched. Odd with a 5th part in aluminium...

Scott, it was me who bought it back then from you but as I would not have wanted to blame you in any way I did not mention it. It does not effect the bar at all, but it may effect the opinions on it here, and I did not want the opinions to be effected in any way. It#s just about the bar. The decorations are fine, absolutely no doubts about that. However Gentlemen, opinions please!

Well, I have the picture even handy but as it isn't my bar... the owner (or at least the collector whose it is from what I know) is a member here so may post it himself, if he wants to. Kapitular, great find! Not a high class order but I think it's rare as henn's teath. :rolleyes:

Have seen more trustworthy bars...

I bought this bar some years ago and am not sure what to think about it. I'd say the combination does make sense for a non-Baden officer, Hauptmann or Major with no front line job in WWI. Definitely not a Badener as any Baden officer who was in service in 1902 got the RJM - and he was in service in 1897. The trapezoid ribbons are very unusual for an officer's bar of that time, especially with an enemaled order. The needle's fixation has been damaged and the needle now is fixed thru the bar itself, directely under the ribbon. I wonder how that could have been fixed on a ready sewn bar... ? Black light test is not of use as the reverse thread is black and doesn't glow anyway. Any opinion on that bar is welcome, thanks in advance!

Komtur, is this your or mine thread? Sure, I'd like to know who's the father - but what do you want? :P