Claudius

here is better scan of it...still a bit blurry. (sorry RR, but I don't like the scan function on my Epson)

Hello; I came across this old photo I bought at an outside market near Budapest decades ago. I liked the guys in uniform and especially the pilot badge. I can't make out the other badges and awards very well. Don't know anything else about it. I don't even know the church the photo was taken at. On the back is an ink stamp: SZÜTS JÓZSEF Fotoriporter SZEGED, Széchenvi-tór 3. Anyone know anything about the photographer?

Hallo Dave; You certainly give a lot to think about. It is exactly these things that must be considered when I was trying to restore this medal bar and reconcile it to its ribbon bar. See the link below, but to reiterate the ribbons (l-r), Pre-1934 Ribbon bar (5): EK2 ribbon, SKM ribbon, DA15yr or Crown Order ribbon, Centennial ribbon, SKM ribbon Post-1934 Medal bar (6): EK2 ribbon, SKM ribbon, Hindenburg Cross ribbon, Centennial ribbon, DA15yr or Crown, SKM ribbon The ribbon bar and medal bar are divided in time by the Hindenburg Cross (1934). In addition, the medal bar has the Centennial medal in front of the DA15 or Crown Order ribbon. However a Crown Order would always go in front of the Centennial medal, therefore the blue ribbon should be a LS medal -suggesting a DA15year. Of note; on both the ribbon bar and the medal bar, both pre-1934 and post-1934, one of SKM ribbons stubbornly sits at the far end. It is after long service award and the Centennial medal. It was my contention that this was an unduplicated, pre-war Ehrenmedaille-Silver. The SKM ribbon right after the EK2 was a SEK4X. However, from what I understand from your last post; "After 1918, though, there was no prince to tell you what to do, so your guy could have decided to wear both ribbons and no one could tell him different." It may be possible that pre-1934 ribbon bar is post 1918 and the gentleman was wearing (against imperial regulations), both classes of the same order. A pre-war SEK (???class) in the last place and in the second position, SEK3X, or SEK2X or the SKM? Would this suggest that the Schwarzburg gentleman was a pre-war officer? http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/53033-a-six-place-schwarzburg-medal-bar-and-five-place-ribbon-bar-set/page__hl__schwarzburg see post #6

On the Schwarzburg medal bar that I have (and illustrated on a different thread) it was my contention that the gentleman was a career NCO soldier with pre-war service and wearing his old uniform for special occasions in 1934. (l-r) EK2, SEK4X, Hindenburg, Centennial, DA15yr, Ehrenmedaille-Silver Having the Centennial and a DA15 suggests pre-war service. Because of the placement on the medal bar and the ribbon bar, suggests that the Ehrenmedaille-Silver was a non-combatant, peacetime service as well. During WWI I believe his exploits, or his rank deserved more than a SKM and was instead awarded the SEK4X.

:cheers:

Doesn't look any German state medal that I can think of. Ribbon color/pattern is a non-match and the hanger system is not one I recognize. I don't think it was made for a german state.

I look forward to when your SEK4X Schwarzburg rolls will be ready for publishing. Dave; I have a question, Are there reciepent rolls for the Schwarzburg Honor Medal (silver)?

Chris...do you have examples of EK1 sew ons? Or any other metal sew on badge? I would like a quick peek at a couple of them. I have a thought about sew ons but need to see some other examples before exploring it further. Thanks,

Order of the Brilliant Star -Nationalist China version???

Hello Eric; Mint condition...but with hard scuff marks on the "F" and crown???? The lacquer really gives the obverse a melty look to it. Hmmmmm....I have never come across a OK1 sew-on version, and there may be a OK1 sew-on versions, but I don't think this one is period. But what do others think of this version?

:cheers:

These are fakes?!?

Alex is right. I did speak rather bluntly. It is easier to criticize than it is to create. (The food always tastes better when you have to be the Cook. I think anyone who served or has gone camping has found that out –RIGHT!). My comment however was to succulently communicate (my opinion) to the latest and best material on the subject. If the two books had complementary information, I would have listed each books positive and negative points. But Rabadeux asked a brief question without preamble and I wanted to answer it just as briefly. I don’t actually know if he wanted just an overview of the badges or was looking to become a collector. I assumed he was a collector and wanted the best information available. With the number and quality of the fakes for sale in the marketplace, without the proper information (or experience) it would be monetary suicide to make a badge purchase.

Negative on Pandis for Imperial German badges. Here is the new standard. http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/53972-imperial-sky-vol-i/

Wait...what is that in far left bottom corner?

Hallo Marrauder; I can understand your affinity for the Godet buttonbacks -nice looking pieces. You are very correct...it is interesting to see the two buttonbacks, from the same maker, same period, but with slightly different styles. I don't know why. I can't help thinking how nice his medal bar would have looked with these three awards. I would like to have that one in the collection. That is, of course, if he had a medal bar made with the awards. I'm glad the last ribbon was identified.

Hello Marrauder; Let me start by saying, what a nice little buttonhole piece you have. The two EK devices on the front do a great job of indicating both the EK2 and EK1 awarding. The first ribbon being the EK2, the second is S-C-G...but you knew that already. The third ribbon....Not a match for the Schwarzburg award, the Austrian Order of the Crown, or the Swedish Order of the Sword. Hmmmmm, it does kinda match the British War Medal....but that doesn't make sense (and it's missing a black stripe).

Thank you Terry for the close up. Half of the watch showing and very grainy too but I think I can make out some details. Notice how the crystal is circular, but the housing is a rounded square. Very distinctive. The center where the hands rotate is black. The 1-12 numbers around the face are completely indistinct and look like smudges along with the bare visual remnants of the second hand in the six-o’clock position. I think it’s a Longines Swiss made watch circa 1911, maybe a little later. I found a similar watch online to see the similarities. http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=ww1+wrist+watch&view=detail&id=164255AE831F41A1C9B551A3765AA048DB205AA7&first=730 This example however has thin, filled-in numbers. Other versions had larger, outlined numbers 1-12. Longines also made the better known, larger trench watch, but this is obviously a different model than those wartime pieces. The ring looks intricate and detailed. So, what could this mean? The gent has an expensive ring, a jeweler’s copy TWM, a pre-war Swiss watch and a uniform and kit in perfect condition, right down to boots with no scuffs, suggests that he comes from a wealthy family. The photos are likely sent to family back home.

Hello Terry; The ribbon bar aside, there is so much else going on with these photos. Right from the start there is the fact you have two of them. One is a full body pose that shows the period gloves, riding pants and boots. The other one is a great close up. Together they show the different headgear a Hussar would own and, I dare say, his preference for smoking when being photographed. The TMW does not appear to be the standard issue Turkish-made star, but is a really nicely made jeweler piece! Look at the glare coming off of it. Just pinned it on? Also, I would like to see more of his watch and his ring. What kind is it? What is the motif on the ring? Is there anything to discover there? The ribbon bar was put together and proudly worn, possibly before a medalbar could be made of his awards. The dark coloring makes it hard to make out the ribbon’s hue and shading and what they would likely be. Position #1 is of courses an EK2. When the photo was taken there wasn't an EK1 award (yet!?)

I like it. It appears that the original owner really didn't like "dangly" things. For proof, I would draw your attention to the fact that owner didn’t use the metal hangers on the back plate. Furthermore, when the medal bar was constructed, he had the medals hang up high on the bar, instead of near the bottom were they would swing more freely. However, #5 probably moves quite a bit by itself. Dean can confirm. The swords on the ribbon are gratuitous, but I believe them to be a period affectation and they don’t bother me in the least.

I too have looked closely at the larger photos posted by Alex. I find them a great improvement, but still too out of focus or with too much glare for me to get a good look. Nevertheless I have tried to look at the rivets, the crown, the eagle and the bow and compare them to the examples found in Previtera's latest book as well as recalling his most notable findings about these badges. While I still can’t see the badge well enough to make up my mind, I have standing issues with; 1) the poorly detailed area where the eagle’s right foot should be, 2) on the reverse, the rough trimming around the edge of the badge and 3) the back plates’ poor bevel edge -near the crown. Additionally I am amazed by the green halo verdigris around the eagle and wreath whose spread is conveniently halted by the greater flat areas where a buffer’s wheel could reach it. These features are not typically seen on period badges. I understand that this piece presumably endured a lot of wear-and-tear and as a die-pressed item it would be particularly susceptible to damage, but this badge seems to have received even more abuse that ordinary. Including, and most remarkably, an attachment hook that wasn’t just pulled open under stress, it actually twisted, counter-clockwise. I don’t know how that would occur through natural wear. Nevertheless, lastly, I would have to say that I think this badge needs to be put in the hands (literary) of some badge collectors who have held many, many of these badges before.

Your photos are bit small. I would like to see some larger format photos and some close ups too.

I'm very sorry to hear this. For the next couple of weeks, watch ebay for the bar to show up for sale. It has such distinguishing dirtiness that it can't be hard to identify.

Great. I look forward to seeing the back. I would add to my earlier comment by saying that even if you tried to clean it...it would never be as immaculate as many other similar bars in the market that I have seen. "It is, what it is." Like any collectible or relic from the past, it can't be as valuable as the similar item that is in better shape. But I don't believe that means that it is worthless, or that it needs to be cleaned up a bit.

Outstanding!.....really outstanding. What a great group. Is there any chance in finding out what ship Warrant Officer Mizuno Kishichirou served on? That would be a real corker if you can find that out!