Chris Boonzaier

Hi, the problem when I merge threads is all posts get added chronologically.... and mixed up into a "greater thread"... but you cannot see which comment belonged to which item etc. etc. etc... I have merged what is possible some time ago, but anything else will split the posts and comments ... Feel free to add to the big thread, or start a new thread even, best Chris

Those are the guys, I will be pleased to use them in the book... (P.S. I am going to change the name of this thread)

All the above is a bit skewered as there is good chance that there are large numbers of soldiers who were awarded the EK in 1914-15 and early 16 whose units had not started handing out docs... they are not represented here. Also, postwar and end of war docs would have survived better than docs whch had rotted in a soldiers pocket while at the front... this may all not have made a huge difference, but would have changed the ratios all the same...

There is another number in the equation.... Apparently the Scharfenberg artikel (I dont find this number in my copy of the artical) quoted the General-Ordenskommission saying 2 919 319 awards by 10 November 1917. Now, i am not sure how they got their returns for amounts awarded and if this number included Awards shipped and stored in various high/Divisional commands. Using this number with docs issued before and after 10 November 1917 we would get 4 436 397 awarded by the end of the war, then late 1918 and postwar a total of 4 841 355...

P.S. I used 115 more ocs than I did in post 2, and wanted to calculate the before and after June 1917 awards.... this time there was just a single doc seperating the before and after, so the proportions stay the same... 4 400 000 awards.

There is a very definate increase of iron Cross awards per month as the war progressed... it is often claimed the 1914 EK was "cheap" compared to the 1870 one. I dont agree. I have written an article for an upcoming "International Medal Collector" taking issie with the "in 1870 1 in 20 got the EK, in WW1, 1 in 2.5 got it" Dealt with in the article is what the difference would have been if the 1870 army had been the same size, fought for the same duration, casualties, duration of time spent in the field etc... my conclusion is, The EK was awarded in increasing amounts as the war progressed, but the award was not "cheapened" compared to the 1870 award by any means. I spent the evening totalling up award docs by month.... 1914 Sep-9 Oct-13 Nov-10 Dec-13 Total-45 1915 Jan-3 Feb-0 Mar-7 Apr-5 May-8 Jun-7 Jul-4 Aug-8 Sep-7 Oct-8 Nov-4 Dec-10 Total-71 1916 Jan-10 Feb-13 Mar-14 Apr-4 May-11 Jun-16 Jul-21 Aug-19 Sep-15 Oct-18 Nov-17 Dec-25 Total-183 1917 Jan-16 Feb-7 Mar-14 Apr-17 May-23 Jun-22 Jul-17 Aug-31 Sep-17 Oct-16 Nov-19 Dec-21 Total-220 1918 Jan-20 Feb-10 Mar-14 Apr-28 May-29 Jun-30 Jul-20 Aug-25 Sep-21 Oct-18 Nov-23 Dec-8 Total-246 Total used 765

Again...

Just to show what a fantastic thing Alex can do....

Cool.... I had never seen one before... does anyone know of any ina Museum?

Hi, can you post a close up of the text of the citation?

Hmm... if that be right... its your turn to post one! Trevor, am i right in seeing the ring on that has not beensoldered closed?

Hi, I assume they didnt toss them though, as long as there was ammunition they must have stayed in service. I had never seen anything like this...

OK, your turn... make it an easy one so I have a chance as well :-)

This thread may be of interest http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/8107-rothe-neffe-ek1/page-2

Hi, I tried for a minute or so to see subtle differences in the crown, but cannot....

Wow.... my first thought seeing the small pic was "why would they have need a preliminary doc??" But seeing where it was awarded.... fantastic!

It seems that there are a few "EK numbers" that are bandied about with no critical thought.... Here is one, repeated in numerous sources........ 1 in 20 1870 soldiers got the EK.... 1494412 men served.... 44480 EKs awarded..... I am bad at math.... so maybe I am calculating wrong... but how does that give 1 in 20 ? It seems quite a number of things were taken over from Nimmerguts EK book, no questions asked...

I remember reading about woodbines, i think in the Spike Milligan books.... I wonder if you can still buy them? I would be curious to try one.....

Fantastic Andreas! Muchos grazias!!

What you see is what you get... bandage, paper, cloth cover. best Chris

P.:S I dont mean Previteras numbers are "definate" as in without error... I just mean, they are definate numbers, as in 896 380 not "Wellllllll... about 900 000...." and definate numbers tend to come from a source using definate numbers.

It is guess work on my part, but I am guessing maybe the returns did not come so well in for the last few months? If we assume the "last 100 days" was a bit chaotic, and paperwork was falling behind... If we took missing final numbers into account, we could calculate up closer to the 4 400 000 that I get when I use the returns in post one with the amount of docs before and after that date. Would still be a huge amount in the last third of the war... I Emailed Previtera, he said these stats he got 17 years ago in the Museum at rastatt, from some period documentations... Either way, the 3 periods + Docs solution, and the Previtera stats, whichever be right, if any of them.... still point to about 4 400 000 or less.... So i am still curious when the first mention of 5 200 000 plus raised its head.... Bowen has it as an upper estimate... if it is as unlikely as his low estimate of 1 500 000 (which we know is wrong) then it really is a topic that needs discussion.... 5 200 000 million, no matter how often repeated... needs to be proved or explained at some point... best Chris

OK... who has sharp eyes.... its an easy one for the cross guys... (I would never know without looking at the ring stamp ;-) )

May be a good idea to ask him what the rest of the stuff is and how much he wants for that?

" Achtung Wieder eingestellt wegen Spaß Bieter." haha actually, you could bid 20 000, refuse to pay, and ebay will just send you a warning....