Dave Wilkinson

The second photo down shows members of the Hertfordshire Constabulary. Again, of no relevance to the issue being discussed. As far as I'm aware the Met. always wore "thin" Russia braid stripes (as still worn today) on tunics. On overcoats (final photo shown) the stripes were as shown (black worsted on a white felt backing). Dave.

The question of Metpol. SC uniform is complicated as you have discovered. The last photo you post shows a Newcastle-upon-Tyne police officer. I'm not quite sure why you have shown this but I think you should ignore the style and badges etc on his uniform for obvious reasons. Your original post says that you were charged duty (presumably VAT) on the item when it arrived in the UK. I suggest you lodge an appeal. It should not be difficult to prove that the jacket is over 100 years old and as such it is exempt from such duty. That said, you will still have to pay the Royal Mail "handling" fee. It is always wise to try to explain to sellers (who are abroad) that they should correctly complete the customs dec. stating clearly that the item is antique and is British made being returned to the UK (where appropriate). Best of luck in getting to the bottom of your mystery. As an aside, I have a large number of Metpol. SC cap badges of different styles and periods but have never seen an example of the version you are referring to with a slider fitting. Dave.

Mervyn, The Mersey River Police ceased to exist on 15th February 1920 and at that time the strength was 1 Superintendent, 3 Coxwains and 14 Constables. The displaced men were absorbed into the land divisions of the City Police. With regard to Reg Hale's research, yes he did privately produce a 43 page book which gave details of his discovered non-Home Office police forces which had existed since 1829. He was kind enough to send me a copy (which I still have). Unfortunately it is not dated but from recollection it must have been sent to me about 15 years ago. Best wishes, Dave.

Mervyn, Just to clarify. The Mersey River Police were not a "stand alone" police force. They were a division of the Liverpool City Police and were administered along similar lines to the Thames River Police which were and are an integral part of the Metropolitan Police. They were all members of the Liverpool City Police who were posted for duty on the River Mersey. That said, rather unusually they were provided with their own distinctive cap and collar badges. The collar badges in my collection have loop/lug fittings on the reverse and are also drilled as per the photo. The individual whose name escapes you is Reg Hale (now deceased) and he lived in Cheltenham. Dave.

Paul, Yes, that did cross my mind. However, the "dots" on Cornwall's shield (they are actually "bezants" or golden roundels) are 15 in number. Also, Cornwall Constabulary produced a series of badges (of similar size and shape) which were clearly from that County (showing the full shield with a dark blue background) and either "SC", "PWR", "PMAS", WAPC etc. So, I don't think, on the balance of probabilities, it is connected with Cornwall. In fact, if I'm honest, I don't think it is police related at all. As an aside, the enamel background to the "CC" is actually GREEN and not the usual police dark blue. Dave.

There are no stars on it. They are dots! Dave.

If you read the posting and the attachments you will see that it applies to all Australian Police Forces. Dave.

I don't think he did any campaigning. He's simply copied/pasted an announcement made by the Australian Prime Minister. Dave.

Dave, These stars were awarded to those who had presented themselves for attestation in the Metropolitan Special Constabulary BEFORE midnight on 31st December 1914. They were worn on the left forearm only. For those ranks of Inspector and above the "ring" surrounding the centre and the centre itself was enamelled dark blue with the wording "Metropolitan 1914" and the inter twined "SC" centre showing in relief. Dave.

Brian, Not quite. I have the helmet plate , but the telling factor is the helmet itself. It's rather unusual top was unique to the Dorset Constabulary. So, my eyes are probably no better than your's. I'm glad to be able to ID it for you. Regards, Dave.

Brian, A old thread which has just been re-activated, hence my seeing it for the first time. I know nothing of handcuffs but I can tell you that the Constable in your photo is a member of the Dorset Constabulary. Indeed, that is the wording on his helmet plate. Dave.

I find the term "clothes number" a difficult concept to get my head around. Surely the object of a number on a police uniform is to identify the individual wearing the uniform to any person who wished to comment upon the actions of the wearer, adverse or otherwise. If it was simply to identify the item of clothing, then what was the purpose of the letter "R", or indeed Sergeants chevrons. Whilst on the subject, what about Senior Officers? I know that all members of the PSNI now display numbers on their uniform. But, Inspectors and above in the RUC did not display numbers............So, how were their clothes identified without a numbers? Dave

Jock, Following the end of the Second WW a large number of UK police officers were sent to Germany (and former occupied countries) as part of the British Control Commission. It seems reasonable to assume that they took with them British police marked steel helmets and this may be a possible source. Of course your suggestion of a memento from the Jersey or Guernsey Police (Channel Islands) is another possibility. It is a pity that there was no practice of overtly marking them with the name of the town or county that they related to. That said it is almost certainly the case that the outside markings would have been stipulated by the UK Government so as to standardise the outward visibility of such helmets when police were sent to different parts of the UK as part of mutual aid detachments. Finally, yes you are correct in assuming that they are civil police helmets. They would not be worn by the military. Best wishes, Dave.

Jock, If you find rank badges "painted" then I would take care in assuming that the markings are "original" and as issued. Over the years I've had a number of these helmets through my hands. In all cases those which have had rank markings have had such marking shown on the front (usually above the word "Police") and those markings have been in the form of a transfer or decal (not painted). In addition I've never seen any marked as such on the back of the helmet. For higher ranks the base colour of the helmet was white and not blue. Dave.

See the attached photo. Dave.

Yes, it is a helmet plate for the City of London Police. It should be painted black and the Divisional letter is missing. This type was worn between 1914 and the early to mid 1970's. It is NOT military. Dave.

The first item looks to me like one half a cape fastner. The other half will be a mirror image of the badge shown with the addition of a chain attached which would stretch across to the other badge and the end link would slip onto the hook. Dave.

The badge suggests a "generic" version which would have been available for purchase by one of the hundreds of small UK fire brigades (including the many private & industrial set -ups) which existed pre. second world war. Dave.

Its always fraught with danger to assert that an organisation is the oldest or second oldest in the world. Someone will always come out of the woodwork and challenge it. Such is life............. Dave.

Jeff, For a Constable the epaulette would consist of his force number. These were (I think) four metal numbers mounted on a bar in chrome. The letter which you refer to would be "R" (Reserve). Dave.

Max, The lack of reply does not surprise me and mirrors my own experience when seeking information from police forces at home and overseas. Regrettably, the problems of today and tomorrow concern them more than their own history which I suppose can be expected. You may have better luck with the National Archives at Kew but may have to pay for any information they hold. Dave.

Although the British Transport Commission Police existed in that name for around about 15 years, they had during that time quite a variety of badges. The appended photo shows an almost complete "set" apart from two others which I believe exist and which to date have escaped me. Dave.

Those Officers etc who are shown in the illustrated Police Almanac entry for 1951 will be members of the West Riding Constabulary (Dewsbury Division) and not members of the Dewsbury Borough Police. There will be a stand alone entry for the Borough Police. Dave.

Max, My apologies for the delay in replying. I'm sorry but I can't answer your question. I'm sure that an enquiry with the Cyprus Police or alternatively the National Archives at Kew may bring forth an answer. Probably the National Archives would be a better bet as I suspect that unless the current Cyprus Police have a historian or an individual serving with an interest in their history then your enquiry may go unanswered. Best of luck. Dave.

The British Government administered the Cyprus Police as part of the Colonial Police Service prior to independence and the special constabulary would have been an integral part of the police. Dave.