Rogi

When taking photos, would you please be able to take a photo of the Cross (the upper portion near the crown connection ring) as well on your St. Sava, Thank you Joseph :)

More pictures would be great remember to use Macro setting and focus the camera/ phone (Macro is the flower)

Um, I'd like to add it to my collection I'll pm you If you're ok with it couple questions first, then I'll decide :)

Although a little high, it is a good price, I'd of been happy if I owned it even at this amount

you need to post the back too.

I think it is as Paul and I suggested, it is a private manufacturer (since I've only seen 2 others of these on the market, one 3rd and one 4th) As Paul suggested it is most likely the Brussels Jewler that Mr. Carr has put in his Orders and Medals book It is a great pick up and addition to your collection I think from your explanation of the look of the Saint it is this Brussels one, the golden lines may have been too flashy when exposed to the Camera's flash if they are about the same look as the Golden gilt on the St. Sava itself, then there should be no issues I think because of the small quantity of these out there, it is a custom piece from this Brussels Shop :)

Could be custom made, but then again, why Golden Saint. I think the piece might have been damaged and the icon was re-done by a inexperienced Jeweler (or painter), with a less than favorable result (at least to me ). It really looks odd, and I doubt that a private experienced Jeweler would have made this piece in such....odd quality. It may be the photos of the piece, but it doesn't look as good an icon as others, and recipients and the regular firms that manufactured the St. Sava had standards to look up to in the presentation of the Icon. I don't believe from standards in Iconography and artisanship that a professional did the icon image. If you can zoom in on that hallmark we'd be able to tell what it was, or what it is :)

Fantastic Group Captain Albert I'm crossing my fingers for more info. on him

Hello Karsten, Thank you so much for looking through the list Is it possible that there could be a combination between any of these in the list that could have accounted for this medal bar? From the information provided, I believe the Avis is a replacement piece for a Kingdom order. This really points the medal bar being made around 1919 or later, when this version of Avis was introduced (assuming we assume the Avis is correct here) If the recipient received the Avis in 1894-1910 then he would have had to switch the Crown Avis with the republic version in the 20s if anything else, to not offend Portugal in the proper procedure for wearing the order. We know that the campaign medal was instituted after 1910s, so the medal bar is either made in 1912 (or sometime there in as Daniel suggested) or in the 1920s ( with the Avis as a replacement) I think if we had a list of these Polizeitruppen (only they were eligible for the 1894/95 clasp) then it would be mystery solved as Karsten suggested It arrived yesterday and I'd like to share the front photo I've taken it is such a beautiful medal bar, you cannot see the true beauty in photos and have to handle one of these pieces up close, new appreciation of these amazing Bars and many Thanks to Captain Albert for being able to purchase this beautiful bar from him

ohh sweet :D

Very cool and interesting :D

It should be pristine on the back side, to my knowledge the sword didn't have a chance of failing, it was well put together. Definatley looks like a re-tool or addition to the order. The order itself looks horrible in that light, I'm not convinced on the crown too, it has a very harsh appearance :S

Could be Afghanistan, but one of the vets will know better, its definatley very communist esque with the star

Very cool cross and cool photo thank you for sharing it with us :D

Wow good price :S heck I would of probably pitched in for that sum lol :D

Oh man, that sucks hopefully its going to find a good home, not as awesome as yours my friend but what can you do

You need to go through one of the researchers Auke (Ferdinand) is one that I use a lot he is really good in obtaining results and he should be able to know what is needed and how much the cost for obtaining his record card etc is :)

Great pictures Radmilo Thank you for sharing I'm sure these won't come up for auction any time soon! lol Would be am amazing piece to be able to see in person

There were some workshops that made private examples of Orders, I remember reading somewhere for our Savas and Takovos. Could very easily be one of these producers you are suggesting Radmilo :)

Aye true, but it could as well be a Replacement M on a 1883 Bertrand too. I mean if we check our Yugoslavian Orders and Decorations book, you can clearly see in one of the photos and mentioned there a 1882 replacement from possibly an Order of the White Eagle back piece on a St. Sava Best case scenario on the one Radmilo posted would be something like, vet has old M style Sava, it falls/breaks whatever :S accidents happen. Vet. takes the Sava to a Jeweler who replaces the M monogram on a later Bertrand style piece. Then again this is only speculation but if I was a Vet, that's probably what I'd do if I had my older style piece hit the floor and shatter Then again, do we know how the 1883 is attached? If it is in whole or in parts attached to the back, if its down completely fixed, then we can eliminate a replacement. If it is only secured in 2-3 places, then that can explain the crack where the 3 would have been and how it was possible to remove the piece from the back.

I've been thinking a lot about the I class Bertrand, and something doesn't really fit with me, I was thinking and might it be possible that, the original Saint's photo on a M monogramed piece was worn off or damaged in some way, and the recipients hired Bertrand privately to re-do the portrait? Whenever I see the M monogramed Bertrand they always have a different icon style. Have to agree with Radmilo the red Sorlinis are awesome just after Scheid in my favorite icons style :)

Looks very similar to Thailand Order of the elephant, except no elephant, eagle in this one :S Maybe an Arabian country? Would it be possible to see the rest of the bar.

Great post Chris glad to read the article and see them finding those unknown soldiers again :)

Ok I am so thankful to the Phaleristics Academy of Portugal, they have provided a list of recipients from 1894 to 1910 (the only time recipients from Germany were awarded in the 1920s was in 1927 and all Navy so most likely the recipient for this medal bar could not have come from that time I requested to be able to share the list publicly and it was accepted. The Academy requested that if it is possible to rectify some of the names of the recipients, (some recipients just have family names), if the experts here on the forum could dig these recipients out it would be amazing so the full name could be provided in the listings Here is the listing, I hope it would be easier now to narrow down a possible recipient for this Medal Bar? I will post an English version tomorrow, getting late here but I already see a couple names that aren't regular army or navy that might be a possible: Decreto de 6 de Dezembro de 1895 (D.G. 285, 1895) Cavaleiro Graf von Schönborn-Wiesentheid, Capitão, Ajudante-de-campo do Chanceler Alemão Wilhelm Eugen Joseph Kalm, Capitão do Exército Alemão Richard Hofricter, Capitão do Exército Alemão Joseph Karl Emmanuel Alexander Münstermann, Capitão do Exército Alemão Heinrich Rudolph von Cuckvort, Capitão do Exército Alemão Sterne Walter von Mombary, Capitão do Exército Alemão Otto von Pluskow, Capitão do Exército Alemão Carl von Bodien, Capitão do Exército Alemão Carta Régia de 1 de Janeiro de 1896 (D.G. 6, 1896) Cavaleiro Johannes Hann, Tenente da Marinha de guerra Imperial Alemã Karl Tagert, Tenente da Marinha de guerra Imperial Alemã Decreto de 6 de Junho de 1896 (D.G. 132, 1896) Cavaleiro Konrad Wilhelm Gustav Herman, Graf Finck von Finckenstein, Capitão do 1º Regimento de Infantaria da Guarda Imperial do Exército Imperial Alemão Decreto de 25 de Novembro de 1897 (D.G. 278, 1897) Cavaleiro Adolf von Drebber, Tenente de Artilharia do Exército Imperial Alemão Decreto de 12 de Maio de 1898 (D.G. 107, 1898) Cavaleiro Arthur Freiherr von Luthvitz, Capitão do Exército Alemão Carta Régia de 26 de Maio de 1898 (D.G. 124, 1898) Cavaleiro Scheunemann, 1º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Reinhold Fischer, 1º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Stilzel, 1º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Bunnemam, 1º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Freiherr von Ledebur, 2º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Ritter von Waechter, 2º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Robertson, 2º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Von Bodecker, 2º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Fritz Schmidt, 2º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Ernst Hoffmam, 2º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Dr. Wentel, Médico da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Dr. Schacht, Médico da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Stiegel, Maquinista da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Grieb, Comissário da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Carta Régia de 15 de Junho de 1899 (D.G. 138, 1899) Cavaleiro Bossart, Capitão-Tenente da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Werthmann, Capitão-Tenente da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Pindter, Capitão-Tenente da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Wachsmann, Almoxarife Mor da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Graf von Posadowsky, Tenente de 1ª classe da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Carta Régia de 13 de Agosto de 1899 (D.G. 209, 1899) Cavaleiro Mersmann, 1º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Decreto de 27 de Setembro de 1899 (D.G. 237, 1899) Cavaleiro Von Weise, Capitão do Exército Alemão, Adido Militar da Alemanha em Lisboa Decreto de 31 de Maio de 1900 (D.G. 126, 1900) Cavaleiro Friedrich Franz Max Ahlers, Capitão do Regimento de Fuzileiros da Guarda Alemã Decreto de 12 de Março de 1901 (D.G. 59, 1901) Cavaleiro Von Funcke, Capitão do 2º Regimento de Infantaria da Guarda do Exército Alemão Decreto de 17 de Setembro de 1904 (D.G. 214, 1904) Cavaleiro Philippe Lougard, Capitão de Infantaria de Reserva do Exército Alemão, Autoridade Superior Administrativa de Sigmaringen Carta Régia de 18 de Maio de 1905 (D.G. 119, 1905) Cavaleiro Von Hass, Tenente da Marinha de guerra Alemã Decreto de 10 de Agosto de 1905 (D.G. 183, 1905) Cavaleiro Konrad Wagler, Capitão de Infantaria do Exército Alemão Von Penskoro, Capitão de Infantaria do Exército Alemão Decreto de 31 de Janeiro de 1906 (D.G. 29 e 43, 1906) Cavaleiro H. Köhler, Tenente do Exército Alemão Decreto de 26 de Abril de 1906 (D.G. 97, 1906) Cavaleiro Graf La Rosée, Oficial do Exército da Baviera (Bayern) Decreto de 27 de Junho de 1908 (D.G. 157, 1908) Cavaleiro Von Brause, 1º Tenente do 20º Regimento de Infantaria de linha Graf Tauentzein von Wittenberg, do Exército da Prússia Decreto de 30 de Dezembro de 1908 (D.G. 4, 1909) Cavaleiro Bronsort Schellendarff, Capitão do Exército alemão e A­dido militar de Sua Majestade o Imperador da Alemanha.

Really amazing collection I love love love the colonial groups do you have any more to share with us? I've recently become really interested in Togo and Cameroon :)