JimZ

One of the pages detailing duties. Date reads September 1939

Detail of label on front

Cover

I had in my posession for a number of years the record book number 1 of the war records of the Sliema Scout group. I had found this record in a local antique dealer and had bought it for nothing more than a trifle, finding this an interesting item as I was once, a scout myself. When I was clearing out the bulk of my collection, these records followed suit, but thankfully found their way back to the hands of their original owners. I'll post a few scans from my database. I did have a more complete set but when my HD needed re-formatting I lost most copies of these records. Jim

Hiya Jon. Glad that your rescue attempt worked. The idea of group splitting is one of basic greed - the seller wants more and is savvy of the fact that more often than not collectors are after groups. In this manner he knows that if by selling 4 group items seperately, he will manage to get 2 people interested in at least one item, then he may get better value for the group by splitting it. Alternatively, he is hoping that "knights in shining armour" come along and place high bids to secure all items. Again, all he needs is one rookie buyer who splits the group and what the seller than hopes for is more "knights in shining armour" to join the "rescue operation" still pushing the price up. On the one hand its worth trying to rescue the group. On the other hand, its playing into the seller's hands. I occasionally did try to rescue groups and on these few attempts, I have been reasonable and have decided to know my limits and then, if it all goes to hell, to back out and not cause any more damage! Hence if I lose the first item I will not place bids on the next ones. More often than not I have seen some buyers acting with sense and not competing further for items that belong to the group. As one who does not look at medals for their investment value, I think the most important thing is to know your limits and to invest your money wisely as opposed to risking paying through your nose for items that may after all never be a complete group if someone out bids you. After all money does not grow on trees! Blacklisting the seller does not really work either. There's a hundred hungry dogs to each bone. On those days when one hears a rescue attempt went according to plan, one cannot but share in the happiness. But on bad days .... groups are split .... even to the point of going to 4 or 5 different buyers. Jim

That is an interesting angle indeed which I did not consider as I was thinkingh fo solid gold as opposed to plating or gilting. In this case the application of any polish like material is even more dangerous to the medal as the gilting/plating is most often very thin and easily worn out if tampered with. If I look back at Soviet Orders 2 examples can be mentioned. The first is the Order of Nevsky with fine gilting on prominent points of the order such as the battle axes and wreath. More often than not, this gold wears out and many examples can be seen with little and even no trace of the gilting. In such a case, what is already fine and thin gilting will be surely irreperable damaged should this be tampered with. The second case in point can be say the - Orders of Lenin or the Order of Great Patriotic War with Gold star burst. These are solid gold and hence soft. Application of any materials (especially abrasive) will usually lead to scratching the surface. Not as damaging as in the case of gilting but still a "NO NO!!" in my opinion. Agreed. Yet patinas that darken the original gold are observed. Or perhaps it is indeed impurities in the gold through inferior wartime manufacture. Jim PS - What exactly do you mean by "sonic cleaner"?? Is this some sort of ultraspound kit as used by dentists??

As Mario said. You will find others and in better state of repair. Do not touch it and just look for an upgrade. It is my belief that you have better chances of reselling it (should you want to and should it not pertain to a group!!) and upgrading it with its present damage than if restored - even professionally! Jim

Serbia - Orders and Medals Some interesting close up pics of Serbian orders. Last time I checked a few pages were not properly linked. http://www.orden.stojanovic.ch/select1.html

Indeed a pity. Same applies to labour medals such as Orders of Labour Glory, Orders of Red Banner Labour and Order of the Badge of Honour. Essentially beautiful awards in themselves they do not at present offer much if any research value. Of course, in the case of groups where military serial numbered medals/orders as well as labour serial numbered orders co-exist one would stand a better chance of getting some info. But its always good to see these medals with an accompanying booklet. At least it gives a name and date to the order. Jim

One other thing that came to mind. IF this stuff glows under UV light, its going to leave so many visible traces when anyone black lights your medal. Hence, a medal which is entirely original and just has a few scratches and dings may light up like a christmas tree just because of this product, and one may actually draw conclusions that something is very wrong with the medal. I just thought it was worth sharing this thought as what the eye don't see, the black light can many a time reveal!! Jim

Hi Graham. Thanks for your post. Makes more sense of all the different prop badges. Are there any other plates in the book with more naval badges? Jim

I must agree with Ed completely on this one. In principle it sounds like a paint polish of sorts that scratches off paint particles and spreads them thinly together with additional colouring to cover the damage and act as a filler over scratches. Just that polishing gold and polishing a painted surface are different concepts......and the crude polishing of the former is effectively doing nothing more than scratching and damaging it further. I think that generally, (and even not) "Hair dryer" and "buffing" are not words we should ever want to have in the same sentence with "medal" or "order". Be indeed very wary about using this product and I would rather recommend that, based on what you are saying, do not use it at all. In fact try to throw it away to avoid any temptation!!! As for the ethical considerations, medals worn in combat are often scratched and scarred, as they are indeed made out of softer metals like silver, gold, brass and enamel that do not take too much abuse. Of course there is no telling whether a scratch came from the battle field or whether cousin Elmo's son accidentally dropped the it when he was handling it. But I think that any medal in its natural beauty, without "make up" or polish is still the best looker of them all! Jim

Italy - Site for researching medal recipients and some award citations A site that will allow you to look up recipients of Italian Orders and medals with lists of awardees. Some records for some of the orders/medals do not go all the way back so there are certain limitations. Still an interesting research tool. http://www.quirinale.it/elementi/onorificenze.aspx

That's the link that takes you there.... http://www.quirinale.it/onorificenze/Detta...ddecorato=14144. IF its the original text then it must have been written prior to 4- 5- 1943 when it was awarded. I see your point about the nomination for sainthood! My translation is as faithful as I can get to the High Italian used in the text. But this little exerpt illustrates the orifinal point of my thread. To the Maltese he was a traitor who was executed. To the Italians he was a hero and a martyr who was decorated. Jim

Marco, I am trying to look up your father's award online. Could I have his full name. You can PM me if you do not want to show this on the thread. Thanks Jim

Some more information that I have came across when looking for something else is the Italian official site listing recipient of medals ..... including Carmelo Borg Pisani. This is as close to the other side of the coin as it probably gets. http://www.quirinale.it/onorificenze/elenc...;qOrdinamento=1 The reason for conferring the award being: Irredento maltese e, come tale, esente dagli obblighi militari, chiedeva ripetutamente ed otteneva di essere arruolato, nonostante una grave imperfezione fisica. Come camicia nera partecipava alla campagna di Grecia, durante la quale contraeva una infermit? per cui avrebbe dovuto essere sotto posto ad atto operatorio, al quale si sottraeva per non allontanarsi anche solo per pochi giorni dal campo di battaglia. Conseguita la nomina ad ufficiale della milizia artiglieria marittima, chiedeva insistentemente di essere utilizzato in una rischiosissima impresa di guerra, alla quale si preparava in lunghi mesi di allenamento e di studio, in perfetta serenit? di spirito e in piena consapevolezza della gravit? del pericolo. Catturato dal nemico, riaffermava di fronte alla corte marziale britannica di Malta la sua nazionalit? italiana e cadeva sotto il piombo del plotone di esecuzione al grido di: " Viva l'Italia a. Fulgido esempio di eroismo, di fede, di abnegazione e di virt? militari, che si riallaccia alle pi? pure tradizioni dell'irredentismo. - Malta, 1942." My translation as follows: Being Maltese , he was as such, exempt from any militay service. Notwithstanding, he repeatedly asked and succeeded in being recruited,in spite of serious physical defects. As a Black Shirt he participated in the Greek campaign, during which he contracted an infirmity for which he should have been operated, and for which he refused treatment, even if only for a few days, not to be away from the battlefield. Following his appointment to officer of the Naval Artillery Milizia, he insistingly asked to be used for a high risk war mission, during which he prepared himseld with long months of training and study, in perfect spiritual serenity and with full knowledge of the danger of the mission. captured by the enemy, he re-affirmed his Italian nationality in front of a British Court Martial in Malta and fell to the bullets of an execution squad shouting "Viva L'Italia". A resplendent example of heroism, faith,abnegation and military virtue that can be associated to his purest unredeemable (?) tradition.

What exactly does this do to the medal Rod? Do you have any before and after pictures? I understand t hat by stain u might mean patina.....argo thr product removes the patina. But then you say its a touch up.... is it a clear wax or a golden wax which smoothes dents and dings by filling them with some sort of substance? I do not like the sound of this very much but i'll hold back my comments until I can fully understand what the product is and what it does. We promise not to take any offence!! After all this is a forum whereby we share experiences in the hope that we can find the best ways to preserve our treasures. Of course we will not always agree on methods but I believe that the end goal of preservation should be the same. Jim

SMOM would probably really belong to a forum dedicated to 'Orders of Chivalry. However, seeing that the major part of the history of the Order has revolved around the area of Rhodes/Malta/Italy, it probably remains more pertinent within this section. A very brief history of the whereabouts of the Order, associated orders and its link to other self styled orders The Order that is now known as the Sovereign Military Order of Malta (SMOM) was founded with the blessing of Rome and spent circa 250 years in the Kingdom of Jerusalem participating in the crusades. Following that, the Order spent some 220 years in Rhodes from whence it was 'exiled' by the Turkish Ottoman Empire. Following this Emperor Charles V of Spain (with Pope Clement VII's blessing) gave unto the Order the Island of Malta which they would rule for 270 years and in which they would fight in the battle known as the Great Siege of Malta during which they reprellled the Turkish attackers. Their powerful fleet would also depart the island some years later to take part in the Battle of Lepanto in 1571. The Order was again exiled in 1798 by Napoleon and would spend 36 years moving around Italy/Sicily until it would settle in Rome where it has been head quartered for the last 170 years. Now this applies only for so long as we are speaking about the SMOM. Known originally as the Knights Hospitaller(s) and later (and in turn) as the Knights of St John of Jerusalem, the Knights of Rhodes, and finally the Knights of Malta which name they still retain today. There are indeed other Orders and "other Orders" The Order (SMOM) recognises four others: - the Order of St. John - Bailiwick of Brandenburg of St. John and Jerusalem (GERMAN) - the Order of St. John of the Netherlands (DUTCH) - the Order of St. John of Sweden (SWEDISH) - the Venerable Order of St. John (BRITISH). Each of these are non-catholic (unlike the original Order), and were founded later. They however share similar traditions and goals as the SMOM. Although recognised as valid orders and associated with the SMOM, they are not part of the SMOM itself. There are many "other Orders" which use insignia and names similar to that of the SMOM and St. John. However, these are considered as 'self styled' orders which the Order and its four associated orders do not recognise as orders of St. John. In fact the SMOM goes so far as to recommend 'caution when considering proposals or appeals from organisations claiming to be the "Order of Malta" or the Order of Saint John'. Of course, these "other orders" do by far outnumber the original SMOM and the other four orders it recognises, sometimes causing great confusion when trying to figure out which orders, decorations, medals and insignia belong to which Order.

Some medals of the SMOM including the ones pictured above. Whereas medal is the same, the ribbon differs. http://www.orderofmalta.org/meritomelitens...lingua=5#inizio Jim

Now that second pic of Belenko I do recognise from when I asked my question and was looking up the info. I am really surprised at the effect of American fast food (and probably vodka!!!) on the guy!!! Jim

Duh Jim!!!! And indeed no 10 year service medal on Gerd's second posting! No more posts after 22.00 hrs CET for me any more!!! Jim

Its a pity that the ones for grab are different ranks - the medal for the officer class is gilt nor silver and the ribbon has a rosette. But in anycase its a question of biding your time. I agree that it is indeed probably faster to buy someone else's order than get tangled up in Italian bureacracy!! After all, its the award documents that are personalised and not the award itself! Now to Luckasz question.... Anyone? Jim

I would be very interested to see some of your RN trade patches if you have any interesting and unusual ones.... ....please show! Jim

The label. It has always baffled me how this very uncomfortable battle dress uniform was still being worn, let alone manufactured in 1960's!! One understands shortage in times of war but for anyone who wore this very "prickly" jacket, would know what I am on about. Kev.... any chance that your regiment had these BDU's to go with the old pattern webbing? Jim

Maybe if u posted a pic you might encourage some more feedback. Here's one of mine.... 1949 pattern..... 1960 manufacture...... (not the best display for a photo - cringe cringe! - but its boxed away somewhere!!) Jim