Bernd D

A picture of the bar could help.

I do not think he is honest. Otherwise he would not make such bars. But people just do not read/think and have a little bit of knowledge.

That?s an easy one. Just read the description of it. The seller already wrote that it is a counterfeit. KO4x were never made like this.

Thank you very much. Nice golden one. The puzzle remains.

Thank you Andreas. Do you have a nice picture of the MVO, too? I. or II. Seebataillon, now it is getting weird.

Does anybody knows which battle clasps are on it?

It would be helpful to get a clear and sharp scann of the bar, the MVO and to know if it is gold or gilt. What I dislike is the combination MVO3x with SA3bx.

The picture is not so good, but I have a feeling that I don?t like that kind of bar and some its decorations. Bernd

There is no military award exempt the campaign medals. CO4 and AE are a common combination for elder low/middle bureaucrats.

I agree with you. Bernd

Major Gustav Wagener, DragR 7, got the BMVO RK I on the 19. Apr 1898. It was returned in 1925 after his death. Bernd

The clasp doesn?t look good at all. It was added in the wrong place and not so long ago.

I found this about Lampe (c. M. Bodeaux): Bremen, Hanseatenkreuz - Korvettenkapit?n - 1916, 08.01.R GOEBEN, I. Offizier DR Chinadenkm?nze f?r K?mpfer - Leutnant zur See - 1901, 05.10.S BRANDENBURG DR Kolonialdenkm?nze - Kapit?nleutnant - 1912, 06.13.S PANTHER, Wachoffizier, s.Zt. Oberleutnant zur See DR Spange VENEZUELA 1902/03 Pr. Centenarmedaille - Kadett - 1897, 03.22.S STEIN Pr. Dienstauszeichnungskreuz XXV - Kapit?n zur See - 1923, 06.10.R Schiffsstammdivision der Nordsee, Kommandeur Pr. Eisernes Kreuz 1914 I. Kl. - Korvettenkapit?n - 1918, 02.14.R GOEBEN, I. Offizier Pr. HOH Kreuz der Ritter m. Schwertern - Korvettenkapit?n - 1918, 03.18. GOEBEN, I. Offizier Pr. RAO 4. Kl. - Kapit?nleutnant - 1912, 09.19. OSTFRIESLAND, Stab But no foreign award for him. Due to the fact he was on SMS Goeben, Turkish orders and medals are possible. Bernd

There were some Boers who received the MEZ2 between 1904-1907. But I could not find a medal for Ironside. Bernd

Part 2

Paul, you are a little bit late, aren?t you? Kube auction 98, collection Siebentritt.

Ziegler got a MVK1x am Bande f?r Kriegsverdienst, but nothing with crown.

Seywald is not in the award list BMVO4x for non Bavarian?s.

That is nonsence. There is and was no reason to exclude Lt?s and Olt?s from the rolls. Everybody who received a MVO or MVK is listed. Only Roth started in his book with Hptm because he did not want to write down about 27.000 names for the 4x in WWI. It is the same with me. I skipped the 24.000 Bavarian officers, Lt - Hptm, who got it, because there are only a few left who don?t get one during WWI. Free MVO4x for all. I think the 3.500 others are much more interesting.

Rick, it is in the rolls. After each recipient is a stamp -silver gilt ? or not. And it is 99% correct. I think you will have lots to read by the end of 2009. It is safe to say all silver gilt ones are after 1917. Bernd

Rick, there are lots of MVO4x with golden centre after 1917. Here are the numbers for non-Bavarian?s: 1917 - gold 530 - silver gilt 67 1918 - g 711 - sg 106 1919 - none 1920 - g 13 - sg 5 1921 - g 13 Of course there are much more for Bavarian officers, nearly every Lt - Hptm got one, but there are still a huge number of MVO?s with golden centre after 1917.

Paul, I?m sorry for you. When it turned up in Germany I couldn?t say no. After the war Eugen got a job at the Reichsarchiv in Berlin Spandau and Heeresarchiv Potsdam. So the civilian service cross fits.

Hi, it is the 1911 Hohenzollern Carl Anton Jubilee medal. It should be the silver one with 300 recipients.

I have this little mini-bar with the plate.

Reverse. It is soft grey cloth.