Bernd D

Rick, I do have a list. Do you need some informations? Bernd

It could be Konteradmiral a.D. Hugo Georg August Emsmann. Here are some of his decorations (courtesy M. Bodeux) Bay. MVO Offizierkreuz Kapit?n zur See 1904, 09.11. KAISER FRIEDRICH III., Kmdt. I, O.d.Ital. Krone Kommandeurkreuz Korvettenkapit?n 1896. 05.21. NL VO. v. Niederl. L?wen, Ritterkreuz Kapit?nleutnant 1891, 08.17. HOHENZOLLERN NL VO. v. Niederl. L?wen, Ritterkreuz Kapit?nleutnant 1891, 08.17. HOHENZOLLERN, Stab ?, Eiserne Krone 2. Kl. Kapit?n zur See 1902, 07.15. Reichsmarineamt Oldb. HuVO, Ehrengro?komturkreuz Konteradmiral 1909, 09.02. Kommandant von Helgoland Pr. Dienstauszeichnungskreuz XXV Kapit?nleutnant 1894, 04.6. Pr. Kronen-O. 2. Kl. m. Schwertern am Ring Kapit?n zur See 1906, 01.21. Marinestation der Ostsee Pr. Kronen-O. 3. Kl. m. Schwertern am Ring Korvettenkapit?n 1897, 08.13. Pr. RAO 2. Kl. m. EL. Konteradmiral a.D. 1909, 10.16. ohne weitere Angaben Pr. RAO 3. Kl. m. Schleife Kapit?n zur See 1903, 09.27. R.M.A. Pr. RAO 4. Kl. Kapit?nleutnant 1893, 10.11. Pr. RAO 4. Kl. Kapit?nleutnant 1893, 10.11. Pr. RAO 4. Kl., Krone z. Kapit?nleutnant 1895, 09.15. nicht genannt Russ. St.Annen-O. 2. Kl. Korvettenkapit?n 1897, 09.24. Sa. Sa.-Ernestinischer HO Komturkreuz 2. Kl. Kapit?n zur See 1904, 10.12. KAISER FRIEDRICH III., Kmdt. Sa. Sa.-Ernestinischer HO Ritterkreuz 1. Kl. Kapit?nleutnant 1895, 07.18. Sa.Kgr. Albrechts-O. Komturkreuz 2. Kl. Kapit?n zur See 1906, 11.10. Schwarzburg Ehrenkreuz 3. Kl. Kapit?nleutnant 1895, 07.18 Waldeck, Verdienstkreuz 3. Kl. Korvettenkapit?n 1897, 11.15. Pr. Kronen-O. 4. Kl. m. Schwertern Lieutenant zur See 1889, 02.21. EBER

He received the BMV3bx (RK2 war decoration) 01.11.1870 as Oberleutnant in the 1. AR. BMV3a (RK1) 23.12.1883 as Major in the 4. AR BMV2 (Comthur) 27.12.1894 as Generalmajor Star for BMV2 - 23.12.1898 Generalleutnant BMV1 (Grandcross) 24.10.1901 Nice collection of BMV?s. Through all classes at this time.

The Luebeck rolls are done for about 30 percent. The rest will be done but I do not know when. Just a mattter of time and other projects. The Bavarian MVO/MVK is done all civilian awards 1866 until the end. War decorations completely 1866 - 1914. Also all war decorations MVO third class upwards until the end. Fourth class with crown and swords all Bavarians. MVK 1. Cl with swords partly, crown and swords all. I will also do 2. class with crowne and swords. I will not do MVO 4x 1914-1918 (27.000), MVK 2x (17.000) and not the 3. class (3x - 290.000, 3crx 60.000) It will be published together with a book about the MVO. No time frame. I am also working on the Colonial medal.

They can not get lost. I have the complete roll on mircofilm.

It is not realy a fake more a duplicate. At that time people bought additional Bravery Medals to wear them on the medal bar. They were made out of different materials mostly silver gilt or in silver, too. You find the same for the golden once.

The Tapferkeitsmedaille, medal of bravory, is not an awarded one it is one made for the medal bar. A duplicate or how it is called a "Spangenpr?gung".

The date for the St. Henry is out of Erhard Roth, Die Verleihungen des k?niglich s?chsischen St. Heinrichs-Orden und seiner Medaillen im Ersten Weltkrieg 1914-1918. He could not get a Kgl. Hohenzollernscher Hausorden on his medal bar because he was to high in rang during the WW I. I saw the medal bar at the auction. The medal bar was made after 1934 and the guy who sewed it did a very poor job. He used wrong ribbons on the W?rttembergischen Krone and RAO3x. He did not knwo or had none. You will find wrong ribbons on bars after 1934 quite often and they are a different quality, too. The condition of some orders is also very poor. The swords of the MVO were broken off. On the Eiserne Krone are no swords, its "Kriegsdekoration" , i.e. the laurel wreath (Lorbeerkranz). During WWI he was not awarded any Baden decoration. According to Roth?s list. He just did not wear his civilian decorations, he had more, on his medal bar. He got the Saxon Verdienstorden Komturkreuz zweiter Klasse mit Schwertern 18.06.1915 and the Albrechtsorden Komturkreuz Erster Klasse mit Schwertern 15.11.1917 (Roth). Ido not not about further decorations during WWI.

GM Johann Meister was awarded the Commander 2nd Class of the Military Order of St. Henry 20 March 1916 as commander 45. InfBrig.

Have a look at Thies catalog, 28. auction, 10 Dec 2005. You will find a picture of Meister and his medal bar (No 40, page 40).

So, this medal bar is not a Bavarian one, but a navy one as said before. Following units took part in the campaigns for the clasp TIENTSIN: SMS Hansa, SMS Hertha, SMS Gefion, SMS Iltis, SMS Kaiserin Augusta, SMS Irene and 1. and 2. company of the III. Naval Infantry Regiment. All together about 970 soldiers. With the combination RAO 4. , KO 4. and Long Service it could be a naval officier, a doctor, an engineer, elder deck officier or similiar. I think nobody of the naval infantry and the last ribbon is a Turkish one.

Is it possible to get a picture of that ribbon bar?

Do you look for someone special? Between 80 and 100 Bavarian army officers were involved in the China campaign. Bernd

On the 26 Feb 1918 five officiers received the MVO 3. class with crown and swords. Two Prussians, one navy, one Netherland and one Spanish. None of them is listed in Autengrubers book. In the prefix he wrote that his list in incomplete because after 12 March 1917 the recipients of Bavarian orders are not listed anymore. Thats why a few are missing. Bernd

In 1918 he had the rang of a lieutenant colonel and received the MVO 3. Class with Crown and Swords. Bernd

The way out of confusion. Here is a list of who produced what. (G) ? Gold and (sg) ? Silver gilt, means for 4th class only the center, 3rd class is cross and center Gold or Silver gilt. There are also older 3rd class, former RK I, by Hausinger, Quellhorst and perhaps Elchinger. Weiss did not manufactured 3. Class crosses. Bernd 4.doc 4.doc

Of course there were a few awards without swords during the war. There were only three manufacturers, Leser, Hemmerle and Weiss&Co, who produced the MVO during the war. They all had to make a cross without swords first and add them later with a screw. All war decorations were made out of civilians. Sometimes it is easy to see whether or not swords were removed again, but there might be still a sign to find out. One thing is absolutely for sure. There were no decorations without swords with a silver gilt centre! Not in the fourth or any higher class of the MVO! Bernd

Yankee, I as far as I know only Leser and Hemmerle produced pre WWI MVO without swords and the mark 950 is likely WWI. Nevertheless a beautiful piece. Bernd

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Another one Bernd

Hello, Kaufmann first six decorations are: EK II HHO Rx - 1918 PKO 4x - 1907 MMJO R - 1914 MVO 4mKrx - 1915 MVO 4x - 1907 Bernd

Out of the German Colonial Gazette No 15, 01 August 1905: Following soldiers arrived with leave due to injury or sickness in Hamburg 24 July 1905: Depending on the injury he had, may be he was not able to participate in WWI. Many former soldiers who served in GSWA return sick and were discharged. Bernd

In the Prussian Ordensliste of 1905 his name is spelled right and already promoted to Unteroffizier. Bernd

Oskar Grundherr von Altenthan und Weyerhaus

It was not an offical award! It was issued from the Kolonialkriegerbund, a privat organisation, for its members. But it was worn on medalbars and uniforms. Bernd