Christian1962

I would agree with the medal id indeed. Here some facts for Ferdinand Graf Vetter von der Lilie: Vetter von der Lilie, Ferdinand Graf (8.7.1812 - 15.9.1882): 25.9.1854 Generalmajor 8.9.1866 retired 15.12.1873 Charakter als Feldmarschallleutnant ad honores. Christian

Dear Tony, the decoration on the trousers were worn by hungarian Honved infantry too. And as far as I remember by all hungarian troops, infantry of the regular common k.u.k. army included. Kindest Christian

I must confess that I do not why, but it was common style for esp. hungarian officers in the Habsburg army to wear the swords upside down on MVK, Iron Crown and order of Leopold. I have seen it very often. Kindest Christian

They are after 1918 until 1938. Kindest Christian

Sorry. But this is "Österreichische Heimwehr" from the interwar period. Kindest Christian

at first sight I would say it´s a good piece. Here one for comparism. Kindest Christian

In my opinon the owner would have been Major at the end of WW1. The Austrian order of the Iron Crown 3rd class was bestowed to foreign captains and/or majors. The lack of long service awards: 1. some people did not display them on their ribbon bars esp. when they had enough high quality orders. 2. the lack of the "Hindenburg-Cross" gives us a hint that this bar was produced before 1934 and there were no long service awards anyway. I would recognize this as a bar of an officer who held the rank of colonel or general at the beginn of the 1930ties. Otherwise: if the crown devices on the ribbon of the Iron Crown and the bulgarian order shall demonstrate a commanders grade - which is possible - the owner would have been lieutnant colonel or colonel at the end of WW1 at all. Kindest Christian

Here an early Rothe collector´s piece around 1970. There are some of poorer quality which I have seen.

Pic was taken in or after 1917: he owns Karl-Truppenkreuz which was instituted in 1917. Kindest Christian

Maybe it would be more efficient to display the whole card? Christian

It´s one of the first issues. They did not have a triangular ribbon during the first years. Regards Christian

Gentlemen, sorry for my delay. Some clarifications: 1. you are right, the hallmarking law was instituted in 1867. 1872 was the year when the stars were changed into a new model. As yo see I am getting old. And have to stand corrected. 2. There were - as stated above - just three different miniature chains. Kindest Christian

I have checked my golden commanders/grand cross insignia. One has a roman "XI" engraved, the second one has a lot of foreign (import) hallmarks and one has just the chamois mark. I own one from Gebrüder Resch with their marks. Insignia produced before 1872 would not have austrian gold hallmarks because the hallmarking law was installed in 1872. Regards Christian No, there were three types of miniature chains which were of different design for knights, commanders and grand crosses. No bourgeois wishful thinking. Have a look into the "Statutenbuch". Christian

It is evident that all former austrian soldiers had german-style Spangen und Schnallen which were produced after March 1938. And some (or many?) of them used replacment medals for this purpose. Scheider himself received just a replacement medal anyway. But you are right it´s not worth the price at all.

It´s quite simple: Leutnant, Major and Generalmajor who had just 1 star commonly used the bigger stars. Grades with two or three stars used the smaller ones. But: this does not exclude that some officers used the bigger stars too as captain, colonel or full general at own preference. That´s Austria.... Regards Christian

Urban Eduard, Fmlt. a.D., wohnhaft in Wien: Ritterkreuz des Leopoldordens Orden der Eisernen Krone 3. Kl. Militärverdienstkreuz (Frieden) [in 1879] Bronzene Militärverdienstmedaille Kriegsmedaille 1873 Militär-Jubiläumsmedaille 1898 Militärjubiläumskreuz 1908 Dienstzeichen für Offiziere 2. Kl. Source: Schematismus für das k.u.k. Heer 1914, S. 156 https://library.hungaricana.hu/en/view/KriegsMarine_1914/?pg=155&layout=s As far as I see, he died in 1916 and had not any command in WW1. Ruhestand was effective with 01.11.1906 not in 1916. Urban, Eduard (21.10.1847 - 18.5.1916), 1.11.1900 (31.10.00) GM, 1.5.1905 (11.5.05) FML, 1.11.1906 pens. [from Schmidt-Brentano: Die k.u.k. Generalität 1815 - 1918, S. 191] http://www.oesta.gv.at/DocView.axd?CobId=23130 Regards Christian

Here a very nice officer´s bar from Lt. Peter Scheider which was sold on www.dorotheum.com for more than 5.000 € some weeks ago: https://www.dorotheum.com/auktionen/aktuelle-auktionen/kataloge/list-lots-detail/auktion/12827-orden-und-auszeichnungen/lotID/3092/lot/2296574-auszeichnungsspange-leutnant-peter-scheider.html?currentPage=4&results=sold&img=1

Yes, it is a pre-WWII production after 1938, look at the "Ringöse" Christian I am not collecting TKMs therefore just two contributions:

Here some of my collection: Franz Joseph and Karl: Cases:

We can assume it´s an officer´s ribbon bar, therefore the austrian ribbons would (but must not!) be in common: Militärverdienstkreuz 3. Kl., Silberne Militärverdienstmedaille, Bronzene Militärverdienstmedaille, Karl-Truppenkreuz, Hindenburgkreuz, Österr. Kriegsmedaille, Jubiläumskreuz 1908 and Mobilisierungskreuz 1912-13. Regards Christian

if it goes cheap and wth original ribbon *lol*

His rank was "Landsturm-Jäger" which would be a private. In November 1917 the 3rd Kaiserjäger-Regiment was part of the Edelweiß-Division. Kindest Christian

I have collected four examples of TKM-mounting: Henkelöse: regular models from 1798 until 1918 (in WW1 esp. for real gold medals) - they were not useful for mounting on a triangular ribbon Walzenöse: model mostly used before and in WW1 Kugelöse: mainly used in WW1 Ringöse: used from 1938 to 1945 Regards Christian

Dear Elmar, I was sure that YOU will know the fact of faked chains but I wanted to tell it the others *lol*. Kindest Christian

Gents, here another addition: starting in the 1920ties owners of the TKM could purchase real gold struck medals from uniform suppliers. Those were produced by the Austrian mint (Hauptmünzamt Wien) until the late 1970ties. I remember that "Uniform Dürbeck" in Wien IX, Berggasse, had a own price list for that. I can not provide pics of the different styles because I don´t collect medals. Maybe Elmar could? Regards Christian