Christian1962

It´s quite simple: Leutnant, Major and Generalmajor who had just 1 star commonly used the bigger stars. Grades with two or three stars used the smaller ones. But: this does not exclude that some officers used the bigger stars too as captain, colonel or full general at own preference. That´s Austria.... Regards Christian

Urban Eduard, Fmlt. a.D., wohnhaft in Wien: Ritterkreuz des Leopoldordens Orden der Eisernen Krone 3. Kl. Militärverdienstkreuz (Frieden) [in 1879] Bronzene Militärverdienstmedaille Kriegsmedaille 1873 Militär-Jubiläumsmedaille 1898 Militärjubiläumskreuz 1908 Dienstzeichen für Offiziere 2. Kl. Source: Schematismus für das k.u.k. Heer 1914, S. 156 https://library.hungaricana.hu/en/view/KriegsMarine_1914/?pg=155&layout=s As far as I see, he died in 1916 and had not any command in WW1. Ruhestand was effective with 01.11.1906 not in 1916. Urban, Eduard (21.10.1847 - 18.5.1916), 1.11.1900 (31.10.00) GM, 1.5.1905 (11.5.05) FML, 1.11.1906 pens. [from Schmidt-Brentano: Die k.u.k. Generalität 1815 - 1918, S. 191] http://www.oesta.gv.at/DocView.axd?CobId=23130 Regards Christian

Here a very nice officer´s bar from Lt. Peter Scheider which was sold on www.dorotheum.com for more than 5.000 € some weeks ago: https://www.dorotheum.com/auktionen/aktuelle-auktionen/kataloge/list-lots-detail/auktion/12827-orden-und-auszeichnungen/lotID/3092/lot/2296574-auszeichnungsspange-leutnant-peter-scheider.html?currentPage=4&results=sold&img=1

Yes, it is a pre-WWII production after 1938, look at the "Ringöse" Christian I am not collecting TKMs therefore just two contributions:

Here some of my collection: Franz Joseph and Karl: Cases:

We can assume it´s an officer´s ribbon bar, therefore the austrian ribbons would (but must not!) be in common: Militärverdienstkreuz 3. Kl., Silberne Militärverdienstmedaille, Bronzene Militärverdienstmedaille, Karl-Truppenkreuz, Hindenburgkreuz, Österr. Kriegsmedaille, Jubiläumskreuz 1908 and Mobilisierungskreuz 1912-13. Regards Christian

if it goes cheap and wth original ribbon *lol*

His rank was "Landsturm-Jäger" which would be a private. In November 1917 the 3rd Kaiserjäger-Regiment was part of the Edelweiß-Division. Kindest Christian

I have collected four examples of TKM-mounting: Henkelöse: regular models from 1798 until 1918 (in WW1 esp. for real gold medals) - they were not useful for mounting on a triangular ribbon Walzenöse: model mostly used before and in WW1 Kugelöse: mainly used in WW1 Ringöse: used from 1938 to 1945 Regards Christian

Dear Elmar, I was sure that YOU will know the fact of faked chains but I wanted to tell it the others *lol*. Kindest Christian

Gents, here another addition: starting in the 1920ties owners of the TKM could purchase real gold struck medals from uniform suppliers. Those were produced by the Austrian mint (Hauptmünzamt Wien) until the late 1970ties. I remember that "Uniform Dürbeck" in Wien IX, Berggasse, had a own price list for that. I can not provide pics of the different styles because I don´t collect medals. Maybe Elmar could? Regards Christian

and: there were after WW1 produced medals for mounting on german-style bars from 1938 to 1945. They have a different style for attachment and ring. Regards Christian

One collar was sold some years ago for 90.000 (incl. all) at Dorotheum Wien. It was gold. You have to be careful, there are semi-copies made from original parts combined with fake parts. They are of modern hungarian origin. They produce two collars out of one with casted elements. Kindest Christian

And here a real Beauty which I traded some years ago... Kindest Christian

Yep, your are right. The precedence was MVK, MVM, TKM, KTK, Hindenburg, Austrian commemorative medals (1914 - 1918, 1912-13), hungarian war medal, bulgarian war medal. Look at another example.... Kindest Christian

Some remarks: Militärverdienstkreuz was just for officers. It must be a german officers bar. An austrian officer serving with fighting troops in WW1 would have owened a Militärverdienstmedaille Silber (in most cases) and Bronze in addition. And a Karl-Truppenkreuz. As you can see on the attached pic. Thats a very common type of bar with exeption of the "Kriegsmedaille 1873" which was quite rare in WW1. Militärverdienstkreuz 3. Klasse was the lowest decoration which was awarded to foreign officers in WW1. They did not receive any Militärverdienstmedaille or Karl-Truppenkreuz. Kindest Christian

Historical items have a starting price about 350,- €, as you can see here (and the difference in quality): https://www.dorotheum.com/auktionen/aktuelle-auktionen/kataloge/list-lots/auktion/12827-orden-und-auszeichnungen.html Christian

I have never seen such a cheap and lousy copy. Maybe a Göde? Kindest Christian

And an MVK III./KD 2nd time award. Just 77 awards in WW1 (k.u.k. Heer, k.k. Landwehr and k.u. Honved):

Here a late war case for MVK III/KD/Schw. from Köchert, Wien: Here a nice example for a "Kleine Dekoration zum MVK II./KD/Schw. with luxury case and owners inscription on backside: And a "Kleine Dekoration zum MVK I./KD/Schw." And a MVK III./KD/Schw. three times awarded. Only 11 awards from 22.7.1918 to 1.10.1918 in the k.u.k. Armee, k.k. Landwehr and k.u. Honved!

Only one award is known to Feldmarschallleutnant d.R. Karl Edler von Strasser, commander of the Militärakademie Wr. Neustadt on 19.12.1915 [PVBL. 215/1915] But Strasser already owned MVK III./KD therefore he would have worn an MVK II./KD III. Following the Personalverordnungsblatt für das k.u.k. Heer (Landwehr and Honved included) there were (minimum number) awards: MVK II./KD: 166 (until establishing the swords, some swords awarded later to them) MVK II./KD/Schw.: 147 (after establishing the swords) An interesting detail: GdK Fürst Schönburg-Hartenstein was awarded MVK II./KD on 20.4.1915 and MVK III./KD/Schw. on 1.9.1918. Therefore he would have worn MVK II./KD/ and "Schwerter niederen Grades" Not included: k.u.k. Kriegsmarine (if there were any?) and awards by Heller-Kommission after WW1. And very important: not included awards to foreigners (they were not published in PVBl.). Regards Christian Here a MVK II./KD/Schw. nied. Grades

yes, it was.

I maybe of interest: variant for ladies and case. Kindest Christian

Köbe Karl (*29.11.1873 – 00.05.1944) KuK: 01.09.1894 Leutnant (FJB 22) 01.05.1914 Major [56] (FJB 16 beim TKJR 3) [PVBl. 19/1914] 07.10.1914 ern. zum Kommandanten des FJB 22 [PVBl. 69/1914] 24.12.1914 Orden der Eisernen Krone 3. Kl. mit KD [PVBl. 105/1914] 15.04.1915 Militärverdienstkreuz 3. Kl. mit KD [PVBl. 55/1915] 01.11.1915 Oberstleutnant [44] (FJB 22) [PVBl. 180/1915] 24.07.1916 Ritterkreuz des Leopoldordens mit KD [PVBl. 137/1916] 03.01.1918 Orden der Eisernen Krone 2. Kl. mit KD.X [PVBl. 6/1918] 01.11.1918 Oberst [84] (Kdt. FJB 22) [PVBl. 205/1918] ÖBH1: 01.05.1921 einget. beim IR 3 21.06.1921 ern. zum Kommandanten IR 3 01.09.1922 vers. zum 2. Brig.Kdo 16.06.1923 vers. zum 1. Brig.Kdo 01.08.1923 ern. zum Kommandanten der 1. Brigade 18.01.1924 Generalmajor d.R. (Titel) [VBl. 3/1925] 31.01.1924 Ruhestand [VBl. 3/1924] EKO.2.X, LO-R.X, EKO.3.X, MVK.3.X, MVK.3., SMVM.X (PVBl. 83/1918), BMVM.X (PVBl. 178/1915), BMVM, KTK, VerwM, JK1908, JM1898, RK preuß. Kr.O., preuß. EK2 (PVBl. 118/1915) Do you own the pic yourself? I would be interested in a good scan for my collection. Kindest Christian

Frank Adolf Dr. (14.06.1901 – 12.09.1939) ÖBH1: Zugsführer 15.08.1929 Wachtmeister (HSch) [VBl. 10/1929] 01.10.1929 vers. zur InfFachSch [VBl. 15/1929] 15.08.1930 Leutnant [28] (AJR 9) [VBl. 10/1930] 01.09.1934 Oberleutnant [VBl. 20/1934] 26.03.1935 Silbernes Verdienstzeichen [VBl. 4/1935] 01.09.1935 vers. zum IR 11 (Bruck a.d. Mur) [VBl. 14/1935] 01.11.1937 vers. zum AJR 10 [PVBl. 13/1937] DWM: 14.03.1938 übern. als Hauptmann mit RDA 1.4.1937 [103] (Chef 2./Geb.Jäg.Reg. 137) 01.10.1939 Major [posthum] 12.09.1939 gefallen bei Borownica (PL) [1400] Silbernes Verdienstzeichen des österreichischen Verdienstordens, Dienstzeichen für zeitverpflichtete Soldaten 2. Kl.