David Gregory

From http://www.gwpda.org/medals/italmedl/italy.html

Haynau, That is a very attractive set. I have some documents to a former German officer and diplomat who received a lower grade of the order and I would like to obtain a nice example to match the documents. As I understand it, this order has been (or was) awarded over a long period. Do you know how old your example is and if there are any distinguishing features to determine the age of the various grades? Thanks in advance, David

My Great Uncle Walter served with the RFC during WW1 and as a police officer loaned by the British to what later became Iraq in the early 1920s. There he met my Great Aunt Olga who came from a White Russian family and had fled together with her sister from the revolution. We only knew that the rest of her family had been killed and that she would never be able to return. If ever surviving archives or records become available, I would like to try to find out more about her family roots. The chances seem very slight, but who 20 years ago could have imagined the exchange of information on obscure aspects of military history such as we enjoy here. Provided the records have not perished, perhaps we will find some information one day.

Chuck, I meant no slight to the Georgians, but referred rather to the way things are done in some of the former Soviet states. A work colleague of mine (a Russian) who travels extensively in the CIS/Russian Federation sometimes tells us about the way business is "facilitated" in the "Wild East". Even allowing for some exaggeration by western media, I am sure your concern for your own safety was not entirely unfounded. You are very fortunate to be able to visit an interesting country in such a fast-moving part of its history. I certainly envy your visits there. David

Things don't seem to have changed much, do they?

Chuck, Although we will probably never know much more about him than what you can tell us, he is at least "known" and being viewed by more people than he could ever have imagined so long after he passed away. I sometimes wonder if anything we leave behind will ever be paid as much attention by collectors in the not-too-distant future. With groups such as the one you show here, we seem to accumulate snapshots of history that were not significant enough to make the history books (expect perhaps for items attributed to historical figures). Are there any archives or records that might reveal why he was awarded his St. George Cross? David

Chuck, I know nothing about Imperial Russian militaria, but I really enjoy seeing attributable items, especially when they are works of art in their own right. David

Wild Card, Thanks for showing that. I suspected to see something very similar to the later Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen, as Dave D. pointed out above. So many 2-medal bars of that era seem to be the standard Kriegsdenkm?nze and Centenary medal, this one is a refreshing change. It must also be fairly scarce. David

Glenn, Sorry if my answer isn't very helpful, but decipering the handwriting is probably the easiest part of having something like this translated. The stories should be fairly straightforward, but poetry is usually difficult, if not sometimes impossible to translate. You will be lucky if you find someone that is prepared to try their hand at translating the poetry and who is able to make a good job of it. Please show us some scans. David

If the ribbon is black with white stripes, the only obviously confusing thing about that is the W?rttemberg award attached to bar for an EK2 (or perhaps some other Prussian decoration). Is that the explanation or is there something more to this?

Wild Card, Would it possible to see a scan of the back, please? Many thanks in advance, David

Chuck, Although all this "Eastern Block" stuff is not what I collect, I do enjoy looking at it. Since I mostly collect documents, I would certainly be pleased to see more of what you have. Many thanks in advance, David

Please be assured that the term "Saupreuss" (or "Saupreiss" depending the dialect) is still very much alive and well in the south of Germany. Despite the legacy of post-1945 displaced persons and the fact that freedom of movement in Germany means that many people live and work in other parts of the country, regional origins and accents are still important aspects of popular humour (yes, some Germans do have a sense of humour) and "foreigners" (e.g. Saxons in the Ruhrgebiet, Wessies in the east or northeners in the south) still stand out like a sore thumb. I recently attended a conference where a presentation was given by a speaker from India, whose English is impeccable. The German participants, even the majority whose command of English is very good, all scrambled for their headsets and listened to the translation provided by the interpreters, as the Indian speaker has such a strong accent that it is sometimes difficult to know what he is talking about. When a Saxon sales manager took the floor to give his presentation in German, a few of his colleagues from Baden-W?rttemberg made a show about using their headsets to listen to the English translation provided by the interpreters (for those of you not familiar with it, this is an example of German humour).

The flat line sometimes seen above single letters in German handwriting is either a badly written Umlaut, or more usually a sign used above the letter u to show that it is not an n. Without this distinction, it is almost impossible to read the squiggles that some people call handwriting. You also see the same sort of thing in Russian handwriting, but with the line below the ш to show that the squiggles at the bottom of the character are closed, for example.

I forgot to add this link, which is a good starting point for further information on Ernst J?nger: http://www.juenger.org

Jens, There seems to be a rather small, but nevertheless discernible signature shown at http://www.perlentaucher.de/buch/13964.html If the link shows his signature, then I think the text above is probably something else. David

@Wild Card Thank you very much for showing the essential comparison item. I was aware that the cross and crown were separate pieces, but I hadn't seen the locking arrangement on this before. I once had the opportunity to inspect what was considered by a number of German collectors as a good original, and noticed what I thoought was a repair to the catch. With hindsight, it would seem that I was looking at what was left of the pin locking arrangement after it had (been) broken off. @notned My intention is not to scare people, but simply to raise awareness of what pitfalls can await the unwary. My only experience with 1939 EK1s turned into a Floch disappointment, which, besides the spiralling prices for essentially very common awards, also put me off looking for Third Reich awards for good. Since Imperial documents offer me much more research potential, and I only collect representative examples of the awards to match them if the awards are missing from the groups, I don't want to repeat my Floch experience with Imperial awards. As collectors disenchanted with constantly improving Third Reich fakes turn to Imperial militaria, it will only be a question of time before the fake peddlers meet demand in this field, too. The only way to beat them, in my view, is to identify the fakes and reveal who sells them. Only by sharing this knowledge do we have a chance of enjoying, rather than being disappointed and frustrated by the items we crave. This is not meant to be a witch hunt, and the fake sellers can open as many new eBay accounts as they need, but I hate to see the prices that some accepted fakes seem to command in auctions in which the bidder lists are kept secret. @Jens Excellent idea. If anyone else has other examples of bad sellers and fakes awards, please share them with us so that other people don't make the same mistakes again.

Very nice find, Christophe. Is that a single ribbon woven to show the colours of both awards or just two ribbons positioned close together? The crossed swords are different from the example I posted in #69, but otherwise they are both nice examples of what a junior officer probably had to show for surviving the war.

Jens identified froschhuettl in connection with a fake Ernst-August Kreuz 1914, Braunschweig 1. Klasse in auction 6214597022. The is the cross sold for EUR 82.08: [attachmentid=17460] [attachmentid=17461] Surprisingly, both he and the high-bidder 16erdragoner in the above-mentioned auction for the W?rttemberg cross give their locations as L?neburger Heide. Jens also identified 16erdragoner as the seller of a fake Mecklenburg KVK 1. Klasse in auction 6215097865. Here are the images captured for posterity: [attachmentid=17462] [attachmentid=17463] Equally surprising is the similarity between the backgrounds used for some images posted by both froschhuettl and 16erdragoner. Take a look at their auctions at http://search.ebay.de/_W0QQsassZfroschhuettlQQhtZ-1 and http://search.ebay.de/_W0QQsassZ16erdragonerQQhtZ-1 Maybe I am paranoid, but there is no denying that a pattern is emerging.

Take a look at the W?rttemberg cross offered by German eBay seller froschhuettl in auction number 6583443608. Before the images disappear, here is what he is offering: [attachmentid=17455] [attachmentid=17456] [attachmentid=17457] [attachmentid=17458] [attachmentid=17459] The case marked to a Leipzig manufacturer does not make any sense at all for a W?rtemberg award and the cross itself has been identified as a fake on the WAF forum in the past. Has anyone handled one of these before?

The shooting club still exists and has its own website at http://www.sv-wissen.de/start.html Try contacting them and ask if they have any information on membership history. They might even appreciate an interest in their history.

The numbers of the pin to which the mini is attached are the DRGM registered design reference for the pin.

Remy Schrijnen lives very close to me and he has a reputation for wearing his original cross, whatever the consequences.

I think this style of suspension is typical for crosses made by the Stuttgart Mint.

I am not sure what posterity wil do with all my "stuff", but for the sake of self-preservation I tag almost everything, try to store groups together and have started cataloguing everything I have acquired so far. Quite apart from helping anyone else to sort out what is there, it also helps me to find things that would otherwise vanish into storage boxes and files and never see the light of day for months or even years. At least with the Thies auctions most buyers are aware of which collections the items came from, so collectors who do their homework will be able to target former groups if they want to. A complete lack of interest on the part of most sellers and woefully inadequate images or descriptions usually make it impossible to join up the dots, let alone see them.