Claudio

Wow Matt! That's the same bar (see folding on the ribbons)!!!! :o I haven't seen this picture before... where did you find it? Egay... ehm... I mean Ebay? :whistle:

Very nice bars, especially the 2 place one with the red cross decorations for a civilian... very seldom to see the same guy to be awarded the same decorations, but of different periods (Imperial Königreich Sachsen, Weimar era Württemberg and 3rd Reich). :-)

I rejoiced too soon... but thanks anyway for the good try!

Wow Chris! These are great news... I was really wondering if it wasn't possible to find a possible owner of this bar. Great research work !!!! Thanks a lot... hope that other forumites could confirm your research!

Hi Paul! Maybe you have already seen some pictures on the web of von Müller, but noone of them show him wearing his decorations. Nonetheless I am posting this nice picture. Further I found an interesting link in German about him: http://www.fregatte-emden.de/dieschiffe/emdeni/berichtandenkaiser.html Strange! I thought that for such a famous and valorous soldier you could find plenty of pictures on the net; also a street in Hannover was named after him! Wikipedia (German) http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_von_Müller_(Marineoffizier) Good luck finding a nice picture of his medal bar... I would also be curious to see it! :-) ciao,

I really like these bars; they were worn proudly by veterans that didn't have the chance to be awarded beautiful enameled dinastic orders which were given only to senior staff officers who most of them didn't even see the front or came close to it. But of course there were also a lot of associations members who bestowed on themselves and were in different veteran groups just for the sake of having as much bling-bling as possible. I find such bars quite characteristic of the confused Weimar Republic era. To me it's quite interesting despite the fact that such awards don't command high prices or have a bad reputation because considered self-awarded pieces. I noticed however how prices increased also for such pieces, maybe because some more "sexy" enameled order or kriegsorden became insanely expensive (see also Thies' auction).

Hi Gentlemen! I don't see any problems with the above-mentioned bar. Such bars really existed and usually have all sorts of Veteran Associations decorations; you just had to be a member of different groups/associations in order to be entitled to get them. They were worn for a relatively short period, because in 1934 most of these medals weren't allowed to be worn on bars, because the Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer was issued and should have replaced all these ones. Many of such bars where cannibalized in order to put together new bars with medals that could be worn according the regulation of post 1934. Some bars just remained in draws or cases, carefully stored by their proud owner. Check please my earlier thread on Weimar medal bars: http://gmic.co.uk/in...l +bars +weimar Just my 2 cents... don't worry Jason your medal and ribbon bar are ok; the fact that also rare 15mm ribbons are on the ribbon bars speaks for the authenticity of this group. ciao, Claudio

http://gmic.co.uk/in...dmiral-jantzen/ The combination is similar...

Here a JL with "real" (original) enamel...

On the reserve you can see that on 1 o'clock where the flames is, you can see that a bit of enamel color went on it... quite a sloppy work for a pre-1918 jeweller, don't you think? Furthermore the enamal seems very "flat" on the left, contrary on the right it's seems almost convex (don't how to say it)...

Dear forumites, I wanted to started a separate thread (topic), but despite the fact that I have chosen a Topic Tags (Bavaria) it keeps asking that "You ust select a topic prefix to post in this forum"... I think I am loosing it! It's because I have a mac (apple) computer? well enough said... Here I'd like to show my newest acquisition (cross on the left): a Militärverdienstorden 4. Klasse mit Krone und Schwertern marked J.L. for Jakob Leser on the back of the swords. I couldn't view it personally, since it has arrived to my brother, but my brother says, that, although on the picture might look good, especially the nice translucent, brighter deep Blue enamel, typical of Leser. The finish however of the enamel however looks very sloppy. Especially on the edge, where the enamel touches the silver edge, you can see what I want to say, if you compare it with the BMO4xKr on the right. My brother also says, and here you cannot see from the pictures, because it's only bi-dimentional and not tri-dimentional, the enamel is not on the same level with the outer silver edge, but a bit stepped lower. Now for my brother is sure that this JL is an original, but the enamel was restored in a later date, probably recently. What do you think? I'd really appreciate your most educated comments! Thanks in advance for your valuable inputs. ciao,

Thanks guys, for your kind words! ;-)

Interesting... in this case I have a real rare combination in my collection I didn't know to have; MVK3xKr there are only 149 on Kriegsverdienstband! ;-)

Gem. Walter Nickel MVK für Kriegsverdienste (sog. Beamtenband): MVK 1. Klasse mit Krone und Schwertern: 64 MVK 1. Klasse mit Krone: 24 MVK 1. Klasse mit Schwertern: 1’191 MVK 1. Klasse: 365 MVK 2. Klasse mit Krone und Schwertern: 1’883 MVK 2. Klasse mit Krone: 468 MVK 2. Klasse mit Schwertern: 1’652 MVK 2. Klasse: 173 MVK 3. Klasse mit Krone und Schwertern: 149 MVK 3. Klasse mit Krone: 71 MVK 3. Klasse mit Schwertern: 907 MVK 3. Klasse: 24

Well, then in that case I will to sell my named group for Eur 3000! My BMVO1x is without crown but it is on Beamtenband... wtf! Anyone?

http://www.ebay.de/i...9#ht_500wt_1099 I am speachless... :speechless1:

Well I rather have a good than a ugly ribbon bar, but if a ugly ribbon bar comes with a rock solid id or even better with a picture of the original wearer of the bar, even better. But with so much knowledge concerning ribbon bars circulating around in the collecting community, especially also thanks to this forum, any collectors with pieces of original ribbons and devices can quite easily fake a bar. I know I am little anal, but I also prefer ribbon bars with fabric covering the sewing on the back, although especially Württemberg ribbon bars and some Saxon didn't always cover the reverse... they were quite conservative with spending money and quite efficient (why do you need to cover the back with fabric when nobody will notice while you're wearing it!)... they are still stingy nowadays (like us Swiss)... ;-) ciao, Claudio

Reverse...

One of my latest acquistions... a Civilian tuxedo attire medal bar with an Austrian bronce merit medal at the end. Enjoy!

Hi guys! I don't like the Hessen ribbon... it looks like that ribbon has seen some manipulations, see at the height of the medal and the fact that the re-positioning of this medal has left some traces. Is it on Ebay? I think to have it seen before... A picture of the back would help to give more appropriate comments. More than swordless, I would be sleepless thinking to have such bar in my collection... I don't like it too much... but it's my gut feeling only. ciao, Claudio

Hi Christoph! Your wife is very kind to you... ;-) Great combination of decorations, impressive! Especially with the foreign awards (Spanish order) in the end... strange that Flandernkreuz ribbon with swords paired with the FEK (Hindenburg cross)... I thought it wasn't allowed to be worn after 34. ciao, Claudio

Any pictures? :whistle:

Hi Sascha, I really believe that the miniature chain is from the same of owner of the bar. The combination is so unique that I don't think that there are many others with such Foreign awards (Ecuador, China, Japan and Italy!) and that Schaumburg Lippe cross... ;-) ciao, Claudio

Nice bars, thanks for showing them! ;-)

Very, very interesting, dear Sascha! Thanks for posting the tuxedo miniature chain... Very uncommon display of orders of different countries... from left to right, Ecuador "National Order of Merit", Japan "Red Cross Medal", China "Order of the Double Dragon", Italy "SS Maurizio & Lazzaro Order"... well at least a well travelled VIP or maybe a Diplomat? I couldn't explain so many countries being represented in a single group... :speechless1: