Wild Card

Hi Claudio! Frankly I?m a bit embarrassed to post this piece because, compared to yours and Paul?s, it?s pretty grungy; but I?ll do it because it illustrates one of the bronze examples of the cross.

Gentlemen, Allow me to open this post by saying that this is not meant to be a political statement; and I hope that it does not send us off into political discussions. Here in The States, we commonly see significant price differences on a state by state basis. As I write this, gas prices where I live are at $2.80 per gallon while in Los Angeles they are at $3.05 and in Macon Georgia they are as low as $2.50. By far, the most common reason for this disparity is state and local taxes. Now, I believe that most countries buy their oil on what is called the World Market and the disparity of prices, country by country, is caused by the taxes applied. Simplistic I know; but a, if not the, major factor. Yours truly, Wild Card

Well said - agreed. Wild Card

Hi Mark, That explains it! And pretty darn good ?representation? it is. The points which I raised are pretty minor; and I hope that you understand my raising them. As I said, I have a lot to learn. Best wishes, Wild Card

Gentlemen, I?m sorry but the more I look at this, I just can not reconcile the awards in post #8 with those in post #9. First, and most obvious is that the medal bar in post #9 has an HHOx and a POK4x, yet I don?t see any evidence of these in post #8. Plus, their placement on the bar strikes me as most unorthodox. Also, if he got the swords with the 4th class (it is on the war ribbon and I think that it has swords), should his 2nd class badge and star not have swords on ring? I think that the fourth medal from the right (the big bright round one) in post #8 might be a Prussian Centenary medal which I imagine he would have. I don?t see any evidence of one of these in post #9. Also, recalling Neal O?Connor?s favorite story about those ?thrifty? W?rttembergers with regard to exchange of decorations, I would have expected that his Order of the W?rttemberg Crown knight?s badge would have been turned in when he got the officer?s cross - there may be some exemption in the regulations, I don?t know; but I do not see any evidence of the knight?s badge in post #8, nor do I see his Bavarian St. Michael. Lastly, I find it interesting that for the occasion of this wonderful picture (really, it is a classic), he chose to wear the stars to his Ottoman orders rather than the German ones. Can some of our resident experts please take a moment and set me straight on the points I have raised here; I still have a lot to learn, especially when it comes to medal bars and groups. Many thanks, Wild Card

Gentlemen, With regard to the pin/badge originally in question, my first reaction was that it was a Galipoli Star, without the star; but Dan Murphy?s enhancement in post #8 eliminates that possibility. At the same time, I do not see a Galipoli Star in the original photo; but there is one in the display case with his other awards in post #9. Perhaps this was pinned through what appears to be two pin loops on the horizontal plane just northwest of the EKI as seen in the enhanced photo. Sorry about the mystery pin/badge, someone will get it. Best wishes, Wild Card

Gentlemen, As best as I can make out from Nimmergut is that this decoration was awarded to very few persons including generals, flugeladjutants, commanding officers (an ambiguous term) and court officials. I hope that this is helpful, Wild Card

Gentlemen, Count me in the camp of camera for some things and scanner for others; although I must admit that I would probably do more with my scanner if I had a better one and knew how to really use it. Frankly, I enjoy working with the photos; but I do have a question for some of the obviously very knowledgeable and talented photographers here present. One of the most critical elements in getting good photos is the lighting. Do any of you have any hints or suggestions that you would care to pass on regarding this aspect? Thanking you in advance, Wild Card

Hi Ed Haynes & Rick Research, I have double checked the inscription on the rim of the Egypt medal and it is exactly as I stated above, except that I neglected to mention that there is a period after ?Bn(.) and INFry(.). Also as a point of clarification, if it makes any difference, I would say that the inscription is impressed as opposed to, as I had said, engraved. The Khedival Star is the type with 1884-6 type center medallion. My guess is that this group belonged to someone who first fought with the British in The Egyptian War of 1882 and then served with the Germans. Having received the subsequent German awards, he went to the local source, who was a German, to have his group put together. I would say that the precedence is proper Prussian. I think that your suggestion, ?My first impression would be some sort of Egyptian courtier, ex-military...?, coupled with Rick?s (Thanks, Rick!) information has us headed in the right direction. Rick, this has got to be one of them. Now, if we can just figure out the significance of that pesky ?5 Bn.? and the ?No233?, surely we?ll have it. Thank you gentlemen, Wild Card

Well done Gerd! I would never have considered using a red background for a piece where red is so prevalent; but you have pulled it off very well. Very creative and very effective. Best wishes, Wild Card

Hi Robert Noss, I am afraid that I have to agree with Paul?s position that the case is an ?add on? ; it just seems a bit much for a single post war single ribbon bar. But either way, what the heck, you have gotten a nice ribbon bar with a nice Iron Cross device on it along with a nice (right or wrong) case - cheap . Your weekend was a lot better than mine. Best wishes, Wild Card

Thank you Rick. Isn?t it amazing how these things turn up after so many years? And the journeys often taken to get there? Per your suggestion (for which I thank you - great idea), our friends over in the British Medals area are getting a look at it as I write this. Thank you also, Christophe. Actually, I think that you guys were doing a pretty good job, considering what you had to work with. I mean, really, look at it, who could ever have guessed? As you put it so well - ?so many realities?; and that is exactly why I presented this group in the manner I chose - to remind us to keep an open mind with regard to the options and possibilities. Best wishes to you both, Wild Card

Gentlemen, At the suggestion of one of our fellow members, I would like to present a medal bar for your evaluation in the hope that you might be able to provide some information about it; and maybe even it?s recipient as well. For those of you who are not familiar with Imperial German decorations, I will point out that from left to right we have the Prussian Krieger Verdienstmedaille (Warrior Merit Medal) in ?gold?, then the same in silver followed by the Prussian Crown Order Medal. Of course, you recognize the Egyptian Khedive?s Medal and the British Egypt Medal. The British Egypt medal is engraved on the rim as follows - 5th Bn INFry No233. I thank you for any information which you may be able to provide; and if I can ever be of assistance in the world of Imperial German decorations, please let me know. Best wishes, Wild Card

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Gentlemen, Thank you all for your response to this thread. As you can see below, your observations, questions and guesses are all well thought out, relative and on (a very difficult) target. Beyond what you see in the pictures below, I can only add that the British Egypt Medal is engraved ?5th Bn INFry No233? on the rim. I bought this bar some years ago from George Seymour. It was his guess, and I concur, that what we have here is a group to a ?Native? soldier who first fought with the British in The Egyptian War of 1882 and then served with the Germans. Having received the subsequent German awards, he went to the local source, who was a German, to have his group put together. This source did not have any British ribbon; hence, the Iron Cross ribbon was substituted for mounting the British medals. Any other thoughts, observations or theories are most welcome. Thank you again for your interest and participation. It is reassuring and a pleasure to see such creative and analytical thinking at work. Best wishes, Wild Card

Gentlemen, Several years ago, I acquired an unusual medal bar which, on the surface, appears impossible and yet could be legitimate. I would like to present it here for your evaluation and amusement. Before we take a look at it in it?s entirety, I will first show it, below, as it would appear as a ribbon bar in the hope of giving our resident identification experts a sleepless night (don?t tell them that the last two ribbons are incorrect - they?d never guess what the medals on them are any way); just the sight of this should give them nightmares. As time permits, within the next couple of days, I will post the whole piece. Stay tuned and best wishes, Wild Card

Henry the Lion looks good - a nice ?fat and happy? Siebrecht horse and proper hallmark. Probably dates 1900 - 08.

Hey Claudio! Wild Card

Hi Glenn - I might add that he ultimately became something of an advisor (baby-sitter) for the Crown Prince during the war. Best wishes, Wild Card

I am not aware of any Soviet awards to him; but I will guess General James Gavin?

Hi Leutwein, The 6th medal is Austrian. I do not know the proper name for it though; and, yes, the last medal does certainly appear to be British - most likely, if for the Boer War, the Queen?s South Africa Medal. I do have to ask a question though. Given the rest of the group, why am I wrong in expecting the Iron Cross to be on a non combatants ribbon? Best wishes, Wild Card

And few Imperial German decorations present a greater challenge to the miniature artist.

Gentlemen, While we are on the subject of the OZL, there is a piece if information that I would like to pass on to all who might own, or someday own, a badge to this order. First, as I understand it, the inserts in the arms are, at least in the later pieces, made of glass. Behind the glass is a piece of ?foil? which is used to reflect the light. Now, the important part - if any moisture should get between the glass and foil, it will discolor and the brilliance will be lost. I am sure that some members have seen pieces to which this has happened. So, should you ever be overcome by a compelling need to clean one of these badges, stay away from the water, dips and magic potions. Best wishes, Wild Card

Hi Sal, As I have stated somewhere before, IMO this is one of the most under appreciated Imperial German orders. Aside from it?s obvious beauty and complex construction which demands the best workmanship, it?s structure and history offer countless opportunities to the collector who chooses to concentrate on a particular order. Being founded in 1809, through the 99 years during which it was awarded, style changes took place - i.e. pieces made in the 1830?s differ in appearance from those of post 1900; and then there are little nuances, such as the very rare oakleaves with the ?L? monogram on them and pieces ?with brilliants?. Again, the collar to this order is one of my favorites as being so delicate it demands, and so reflects, the before mentioned high level of workmanship which makes most others look downright clunky. Sal, when it comes to playing favorites, you have certainly picked a winner that would be so chosen in most any collection. congratulations! Wild Card

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