v.Perlet

Hm..., in which non Bavarian Regiment was this Jäger-Bataillion 4 integrated? I am only aware of a Bayerisches Schneeschuhbataillon IV, that was also termed/integrated as IV./Jäger-Regiment Nr. 3 The Magdeburg Jäger-Bataillion 4. uniform that I saw on the internet, does not match the colors of the one ccj posted. https://derrittmeister.com/product/enlisted-mans-jager-bataillon-nr-4-tunic-prussia/ Regards v.Perlet

Hello JohanH, the link you had provided in your first post - already explains the origin and timeline of the ROK medal. So if this is the medal, then it was also awarded towards NNSC members - especially towards Swiss and Swedish observes doing this job since 1953. Since I did not know what medal you might be referring to, I gave you the example of a UN Korea award (also given to army members (security detachment) and one that was awarded by Sweden to its red-cross contingent members send to Korea, It provided medical treatment for the people, including the South Korean forces, enemies and civilians in Busan, off course during the Korean war. See below picture: enjoy? JapanX - if you got a problem with me, address me directly - try to be a man. Regards v.Perlet

Hello sashaw, What is The club? I just had a look on the link 0179alw...., That guy is something. But at least he is fair enough to write:? Da es sich um eine Privatauktion handelt, sind Umtausch, Garantieansprüche und Rücknahme ausgeschlossen. Regards v.Perlet

Hello Eric Stahlhut, "...or lefty-pinko-banned-political-party pacifistic anti-war memorial" ?? rather the opposite I would assume, since it seems to be about the "four" against the rest of the world. Probably some nationalist or Freikorps like organization. Can't get anything out of the internet in regards to this: WELTDENK Regards v.Perlet

Hello JohanH, if my memory serves me right, unlike e.g. the Dutch, the Swedes had no combat troops in Korea. They had however a red cross contingent - that also beheld some Army personal attached as security personal to it's hospital. This security force could only have obtained a UN medal see photo 1 The hospital staff were awarded a red cross medal - see photo 2 Would you have a photo from that medal of yours? or is it just like the one issued by the RoK (the one you posted)? Regards v.Perlet

Hello Graf, thanks for the link, appreciated. Unfortunately due to referring towards the manufacturing process towards X crosses and also due to incomplete manufacturing descriptions, deciding factors are not given towards the 95% identification on an original 1914 EKI. The frame manufacturing part - actually quite known, is however well described. I am still searching for manufacturing information like the link kindly forwarded to me by Waldo in reference to 1870 iron crosses. http://www.medalnet.net/Eisernes_Kreuz_1870.htm I am as I already mentioned on other posts, a collector of Bavarian Ulan Tschapkas incl. accessories. Which also includes some medals/awards. - therefore some MVO's and MVK's - so please have patience if I start to dive into EK's of 1914. The only awards I collect (or rather that I additionally bought) are strictly EKII's from 1870. All other medal/awards were (lucky me) given by an uncle to me. So due to my own knowledge and e.g. literature such as provided by waldo, I can confirm by 95% that all my EKII 1870 are Typ A. Taking the info from your link (and assuming that the described manufacturing process is the same for a 1914 EKI) then simply the screw pin (which irked me the most) shown on your posted photo would indicate that it is a fake or an EKI produced maybe some 20-40 years later. But again, this maybe wrong conclusion owns its origin due to a bit of manufacturing knowledge that I have, however confirmed by the information given on the link. I am actually quite surprised that despite the huge popularity of EK's from the 1914 period, there seems to be no (link towards a single profound encompassing literature/article) regarding the exact and detailed manufacturing steps and processes. Everyone just seems to know and write a bit. Regards v.Perlet

Hello Graf, Sorry I think I lost you, On my first post I was referring to the copy of the Bulgarian Hero worker star - terming it; cheapskate looking You are saying that Leonid Brezhnev received 5 Bulgarian worker hero medals? My second post was in regards to Igor Ostapenko posting the same order as 992F - this St. Alexander Star. Joking back at him in view of his comment regarding this resurrected Serbian nobility and asking if the same resurrection is happening in Bulgaria. Thus jokingly forwarding; then it would be an original. Regards v.Perlet

Hello Igor Ostapenko, If I am not mistaken, you and some others on the forum are discussing this order under the topic I’m sure - it’s King Milan’s bulgarian order of St. Alexander 1st. class ! ( not order second class of King Alexander ) Seems there are some newly found, resurrected "nobles", in Serbia, Montenegro and Albania who created - are creating their own order(s). is the same resurrection of nobility in Bulgaria occurring? As such, hey!! it's an original order !!? Regards v.Perlet

Yes tradition in regards to the timeline and required merits towards the initial introduction, but the award period should also be considered. All these following up PLM's (don't look different from the initial 1740 award) and were handed out during WW1 AFAIK only from 1916 onward. Take today's Bundeswehr EK into account - and compare with the former EK's. Even though clearly optically and quality wise very different (cheapskate look to me) the tradition as such (in name and merits) is still maintained. Therefore someone in e.g. 1900 could have gotten some nice tools to produce the same format with an outstanding quality and display of craftsmanship in view of representing Imperial Germany's highest award instead of taking the same almost 180 years old die's and tools displaying the craftsmanship of 1740. If tradition would never evolve then we all might still have to live with furniture from the medieval times, huh shudder... I am a collector of Bavarian Ulan Tschapkas, just look how these continued to evolve in design and material from 1808 - 1920 and certainly maintaining the tradition since its initial introduction. Personally I feel that even a simple EKI from 1870 beholds more details and craftsmanship then a PLM. (independent of the enamel). An e.g. Bavarian MVO shows far more craftsmanship then a PLM. But granted, optical interpretations are always subjected to an individuals personal perception. That's all ? And sorry, i just realized that I am derailing this tread - Grosskreuz Regards v.Perlet

Ups, I thought that was obvious. that is why I never mentioned it. The first thing I noticed was that the retainer disc diameter on the retainer cross does not match the rub-marks around it. Then the circular rub-marks on the cross itself, and that the mounting pin looks like a CNC tooled Edelstahl, stainless steel pin. Furthermore that the retainer-cross judging from the frame edge-marks was made via cold-punch. However I can't see (at least not on the photo) the same edge-marks on the cross. So either hot punched or cast. But if it was a cast, that why was it hot-punched (embossed) with the marker names. Therefore why question as to what the usual manufacturing process is supposed to be. Regards v.Perlet.

Hello Eric Stahlhut, thanks for your input. To me a hot/cold-form punching process is vastly different from a die-cast process. I will certainly try to find out more in regards to this issue. Help off course is greatly appreciated. I am not referring to the core (but the frame) and due to this I am automatically skeptical in regards to the EKI posted first. - but I will see as to where my thoughts might go wrong. Regards v.Perlet

Hello Elmar Lang, Thanks for the added links. What always astonishes me is the "low craftsmanship" in regards to Imperial Germany's highest award the Pour Le Merite. Independently of looking at an original or Zweitanfertigung. regards v.Perlet

Hello gjw, I am a bit surprised that you being a member on this forum since 2006 would write; "work my way up". personally I think as a collector being new to e.g. Austrian-Hungarian medals/awards you should start to "work your way down". Otherwise you will be prone to spending some hundred Euros on fakes or replicas. Which only leads to an early disappointment and frustration. I would try to find an interesting worthy piece for e.g. 300-500 Euro and get as much information (e.g. on this site) as possible before deciding to buy it. As such one will get a genuine piece that holds value (even as an investment) and by holding it in ones hands you will get the feeling for quality and craftsmanship of the respective maker. Then I would work my way down towards other awards in view and search of that maker. And yes, surely get a good literature - like the one Christian1962, suggested. But hey, that just me. Regards v.Perlet

Hello Graf, thanks for the pic. My God, that Bulgarian hero-star medal looks so cheapskate. Regards v.Perlet

Hello Graf, If I got you right, then you are saying that the manufacturing process of the EK1 you are showing on your first post was subjected to the same manufacturing and tooling process which which my EK1 (KO) was made and the Werner EK1 you posted with the pin clip? Regards v.Perlet

The ribbon bar wasn't posted by me, but thanks to drspeck - honor to whom honor applies ? Regards v.Perlet

Hallo waldo and others, The reason why i placed the question regarding different manufacturers between cross and medallion is due to the following pictures, all MVO's 4 Kl. made/stamped by W&C. The vertical line I would term 12 o'clock - then clockwise 2 o'clock and 4 o'clock lines. On the last picture even if one would turn the medallion a bit anti-clockwise, the Lion head would meet with the 12 o'clock line and the 2 o'clock line would run through the middle where the embroidery roots split. However the Lions hand paws and feet - which are already off, would be even more off centered to the lines. The belt buckle also would be fully off centered to the 12 o"clock line. So twisting the medallion a bit anti-clockwise won't work. Especially not regarding the lions paws and feet. So any thoughts as to why the medallion obviously doesn't fit. Or is there something essentially wrong with the last MVO, because the lower arm frame isn't equally broad either. Regards Andreas

Does anyone of you "experts" - I mean that sincerely!, has a link to literature that would describe the manufacturing process of a Werner EKI cross? e.g. cold/hot formed and punched from a metal sheet , or the casting procedure. The assembly procedure and as such the applied welding-soldering process? Also the application process of the manufacturers marking. Because just looking onto and judging from a photo without knowing the manufacturing process isn't going to give a viable answer, or? Thanks and regards v.Perlet

Hello bolewts58, I got a bit of a different view on this: In 1976 (when my uncle told me, don't invest.....) a family relative of mine was making around 800DM/month and a "good" EK I was traded at around 30-50DM - which would be around 5% of his income. Today the same job pays around 2600 Euro and 5% would be 130Euro. So if faking an EK1, nowadays is considered good business, it would have been the same good business in 1976. And from what I know, this Dr...., wasn't the only one doing this manufacturing business. Therefore all I am forwarding is: I don't trust these EK1's - that's all Regards v.Perlet

Hello Graf, yep that EK1. I like too.? What the heck!! the second one from left -top row, amazing locking system - must be really rare. Congrats if its yours. Regards v.Perlet

Hello Charadras, Sorry but I am very poor in regards to Wehrmacht 1933-45 issues, but I am sure there are a lot of knowledgeable folks on this site. As for the sources: https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2020/01/02/lrdg-in-the-balkans/#:~:text=On 15 September Foxforce occupied the island of,naval base on the south of the island. https://www.whobegatwhom.co.uk/ind71.html Happy reading and good luck for your research Regards v.Perlet

Hello Charadras, (last photo) - The Korporal on the right hand-side wears a sleeve patch which seems to be that worn by Flugmeldepersonal (aircraft spotter) Since none of them wears a flak badge, they were probably an aircraft observation unit. Since primarily these islands were used to report on naval and air movements. On 15 September 1944, Foxforce (built around 9 Commando) arrived at Avlemon, on the eastern end of the island of Kithera, in Greece. By all accounts, they received a very warm welcome form the local residents. Some days earlier, Paul had again been dropped by parachute, along with an SBS patrol, this time onto the island, where they destroyed a radar station. In fact, the raiding force discovered that the island had been evacuated. Regards v.Perlet

My best guess would be, that someone placed an additional communist sign on the ribbon, to make it more convincing that it is a medal issued by some communist country. Or a French communist placed it on his wounded medal badge ribbon. Regards v.Perlet

Hello Walter, hobs kapiert - understood and thanks for all the help. Would you know about the medallion issue; self-produced or bought? Thanks again, especially for your Lesewerk? Gruss Andreas

Hello bolews58, "So, your statement about reunification is nonsense" Not so sure because this article also mentioned something about those machines (molding/stamping) had been transferred first into former East-Germany and then later to some Eastern-country, supposedly involving a South-German auction company. Definitely this Dr. Klietmann and his associates via another company from the 60's onward (just checked the internet after you forwarded me his name) (Die Ordens-sammlung), knew how to make those machines run for the next 25 years. But it doesn't matter since you already confirmed the 60's part and I am not interested in simply spreading rumors. Regards v.Perlet