Dave Danner

John (AKA Jean) Huffer actually received five Croix de Guerre. One source says 3 palms and 2 stars, while another says 4 with palm and one with star. He also received the Médaille militaire. The citations are below. The middle three are Army-level citations, so these should be with palm. The last is a regimental-level citation, so should be a bronze star. I have no idea what a "Citation à l'Ordre de l'Aéronautique" means. It was from the French 6th Army, so maybe a palm, but if it was considered to be from a lower-level command within the 6th Army (l'Aéronautique = "aeronautics section"?), it was probably a star. The source which says 3 palms and 2 stars is the same source which has the citations, so it is probably more reliable than the secondary sources with 4 palms and one star.

The RAO4 with the "50" was awarded as late as at least 1918, so he could have entered the civil service as late as 1868. Possibly a few years earlier, though, since if he was in the civil service during the war, there was a good chance to get the Prussian Merit Cross for War Aid. But as Sascha says, it could be many years earlier. The combination of clasps on the KDM70/71 fits several regiments. We can probably rule out the Bavarian regiments (5., 6., 7. & 14. IRs and 7. & 14. ChevRs), so that leaves FR 37 from West Prussia, IR 50 from Lower Silesia, IR 59 from Posen, FR 80, IR 82, JägB 11, and HR 14 from Kurhessen, and IR 87 and IR 88 from Nassau (except for I./IR 88 and II./IR 88, which qualified for the MONT VALERIEN clasp). If I had to guess, I would say he was from one of the Kurhessen or Nassau regiments. That's only because of the likelihood he was of age in 1866 but doesn't have an 1866 cross. That's not 100%, just a guess. He could have been from one of the Prussian regiments and just missed out on being mobilized in 1866.

Andy, I think you have the wrong Teichmann. LIR 388 was a Royal Saxon regiment. Otto Teichmann received the SA3aX as a Hptm.d.L. in LIR 388. He was a Saxon officer. I don't have his initial commissioning date, but he was an OLt.d.L.-Inf., Ldw.Bez. I Leipzig, on 7.12.03 and a Hptm.d.L. on 24.8.10. The OLt.d.L. Teichmann may be Hugo Teichmann, also a Saxon. He received the Military Order of St. Henry with RIR 106, so he might have had an exploit which made the Reichsarchiv books. The signature on your EK doc is probably of value too. Heinrich XXX. Prinz Reuß. Regards, Dave

That picture of the Merit Cross came from the archives in Gotha? So not only do the archivists not know the different classes of the order, which is not surprising based on my experiences in German archives, but the image they sent you was the one on my website. That particular cross was sold in an auction by UBS in 2007 and UBS gave me permission to use their catalog photos. Whether he got the merit cross or the silver or gold merit medal is mainly a matter of what rank he was when he was decorated. I am not sure exactly how Saxe-Coburg would have done it for a British soldier, but most likely merit cross for warrant officers, gold medal for sergeants and maybe corporals and silver medal for privates and lance corporals. Liverpool Medals in the UK has a golden merit medal in silver-gilt here: http://www.liverpool....r.-L11122.html They also have a few examples of silver merit medals.

He only served initially in 5. bayer. Inf.-Regt., then in EKK (Etappen-Kraftwagen=Kolonne) 11, which later became AKK (Armee-Kraftwagen=Kolonne) 181. He enlisted in 5.b.IR as a Kriegsfreiwilliger on 1 September 1914 and received the rank of Pionier. 01.09.14 Diensteintritt 23.10.14 zur Kraftfahr-Ersatz-Abteilung München 05.11.14 zur EKK 11 (AKK 181) 04.06.16-21.06.16 krank im Lazarett 15.08.18-10.09.18 MG-Lehr-Kursus Colmar 28.11.18 zur Ers.Kp./Kraftf.-Ers.-Abt. 1 12.12.18 entlassen Decorations: 08.03.18 EK2 08.11.18 Bayer. MVK 3.Kl. mit Schw. Best regards, Dave

An example on a medal bar. This is the bar of Kurt Ritter von Scherf, in the collection of the Bavarian Military Museum in Ingolstadt. Because of its high prestige, Bavarians, especially after World War I, did often wear the MMJO as a buttonhole decoration. I recall seeing photos of one wearing his as a neck decoration, probably because he considered it equal to the Prussian Pour le Mérite. Regarding the MMJO: There were usually three dates associated with an award, (1) the date of the action for which it was awarded, (2) the date the order was bestowed, and (3) the date of the patent of nobility as "Ritter von". If you were already a noble, (3) didn't matter, and after the abdication of the king, there weren't any more patents anyway. Still, these later receipients could legally change their names under Weimar-era laws to include the "Ritter von". For Friedrich Ritter von Röth, the date (1) of the action was 25 January 1918 and the date (2) of bestowal was 21 April 1920. Regarding his other awards: 09.09.18 - Prussia: Pour le Mérite (8.9.18) 25.02.18 - Prussia: Knight's Cross with Swords of the Royal House Order of Hohenzollern 01.11.17 - Prussia: Iron Cross 1st Class 03.10.15 - Prussia: Iron Cross 2nd Class 11.06.17 - Bavaria: Military Merit Order 4th Class with Swords 27.02.18 - Bavaria: Military Merit Order 4th Class with Crown and Swords 20.08.17 - Bavaria: Pilot's Badge 16.08.18 - Germany: Wound Badge in Black Best regards, Dave

I think you are right. I even wrote something about that over a year ago, but my memory must have failed me. http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/15262-saxon-st-henry-baden-war-effort-and-albert-4-medal-bar/page__hl__+centenary%20+medal#entry457967

An older topic, but for what it is worth, Georg Tasche served as a Hptm.d.L.a.D. with Saxon Landwehr-Brigade-Ersatz-Bataillon Nr. 47, which became part of LIR 350. He was wounded in 1916 with 12./LIR 350. He was also a native of Lippe-Detmold (born in Lückhausen), so he might have gotten an LK, but I don't see any Saxon war decorations in the Saxon rolls published by Roth. In the 1912 Saxon rank list, he is shown as an OLt.d.L. with the SLD2. Albrecht Tasche was born in Grastrup-Hölsen. The villages of Lückhausen and Grastrup-Hölsen are about 2 kilometers each other. Regards, Dave

Hi Tom, I too took a look at this bar, as well as some of the others the dealer had, but I guess you beat me to it when I returned. Too bad we couldn't meet up at the show. What strikes me is the grade of the Albert the Bear. A Knight 1st Class is relatively high. An active officer with this class would normally be a senior Hauptmann or Major and have other decorations. If he were a serving reserve or Landwehr officer at the beginning of the war, I would expect an LD1. On a quick look, I didn't see anyone who matched. So I would guess he was a government official in the Duchy or in a nearby Prussian office who got the AB3a based on his peacetime status, and then entered the army during the war, so maybe a Lt.d.R. or Lt.d.L. Dave

Friedrich Sauter was born on 8 May 1868 in Wertingen in Schwaben. He entered the Bavarian Army on 22 June 1889 as a Three-Year Volunteer in the 8th Infantry Regiment. 01.11.1889 Unteroffizier 06.03.1890 Portepeefähnrich 01.03.1891 Second-Lieutenant 27.09.1899 Oberleutnant 27.10.1906 Hauptmann 25.08.1913 char. Major 02.02.1916 Patent as Major (25.08.13 23a) 18.08.1918 char. Oberstleutnant He served in the 8.IR from 1889 to 1906, then in the 6.IR until 1912, and then became a member of the Bekleidungsamt I.Armeekorps. On mobilization, he became Technische Leiter of the Kriegsbekleidungamt I.AK. He retired on 13 August 1919. His peacetime Order of the Zähringen Lion was no doubt due to his service in 8.IR, whose Inhaber was the Grand Duke of Baden. Also, according to the 1897 Militär-Handbuch des Königreichs Bayern, every active officer in 8.IR qualified the Centenary Medal, though I am not sure why. The Bavarian KLK was awarded in 1916. The EK2 came on 7.8.16. Regards, Dave

Gunnar, PEK2 is Preussisches Eisernes Kreuz 2.Klasse. PEK is just how the Bavarians normally abbreviated the Iron Cross. So the files just have different award dates, either 23 or 24 December 1915. Berlinerbummel, The 1918 rank list is only for active officers. It does not include reserve or Landwehr officers like your Lt.d.R. Böhning. It also only shows their Bavarian decorations. Dave

Just to round this out, there were five German states which had a premier military order that was considered their highest military honor for officers. Each also had an associated decoration for enlisted men. Prussia: Orden Pour le Mérite for officers and the Militärverdienstkreuz for NCOs and enlisted men. Bavaria: Militär-Max-Joseph-Orden for officers and the Goldene Militär-Verdienstmedaille (renamed Tapferkeitsmedaille in 1918) for NCOs and EMs. Saxony: Militär-St. Heinrichs-Orden for officers and the Goldene Militär-St. Heinrichs-Medaille for NCOs and EMs. Württemberg: Militärverdienstorden for officers and the Goldene Militärverdienstmedaille for NCOs and EMs (junior officers could also receive this medal). Baden: Militär-Karl-Friedrich-Verdienstorden for officers and the Verdienst-Medaille des Militär-Karl-Friedrich-Verdienstordens for NCOs and EMs. In addition, Austria-Hungary had its Militär-Maria-Theresien-Orden for officers and the Goldene Tapferkeitsmedaille for NCOs and EMs (from September 1917, officers could also receive this, with a special ribbon device). Of these, the Bavarian MMJO and Austrian MMTO had an extra level of prestige, in that they conferred a life patent of nobility on the recipient with the title of "Ritter von". "Ritter von" also existed as a hereditary title in Austrian lands, and was also a title Bavaria conferred on recipients of the Verdienstorden der Bayerischen Krone, so not every "Ritter von" was a Max Joseph knight. Regards, Dave

There is a Johann Rothwangel in the 1914 Schematismus für das k.u.k. Heer und für die k.u.k. Kriegsmarine. He was a Lt. in Schwere Haubitzdivision 11. In the 1916 Ranglisten des k.u.k. Heeres, he was listed as Johann Rothwangl, and was an OLt. No one by the names of Rothwange, Rothwangel, or Rothwangl in the 1913 Schematismus der k.k. Landwehr und der k.k. Gendarmerie or in the 1918 Ranglisten der der k.k. Landwehr und der k.k. Gendarmerie. Maybe Glenn has more info?

Rank, not exploits. The only recipient of the SEK4X who was not an Offizier-Stellvertreter or higher was a Bavarian Vizefeldwebel who was Batterie-Führer of his Feldartillerie-Batterie. Also, for what it's worth, before 1918 you couldn't have double Schwarzburg Ehrenkreuz ribbons. A recipient of a wartime and/or higher class of the Ehrenkreuz had to return the lower class. So if you got swords to your peacetime SEK3, you had to return the peacetime version. If you had the Ehrenmedaille and received the Ehrenkreuz 4th Class, you had to return the medal. Also, many officers were turned down for the SEK3X because they already had the Medal for Merit in War from before they were commissioned (this happened elsewhere like Baden, too; I've seen quite a few Baden officers with only the Merit Medal on the Karl Friedrich Ribbon and no Zähringen Lion). Late in the war, Schwarzburg did approve some SEK3Xs and 4Xs to officers and senior NCOs who already had the Medal for Merit in War, but this appears to be in place of the earlier award. In Reuss, by contrast, you occasionally see combinations with the Reuss Ehrenkreuz and associated Verdienstmedaille both with swords. After 1918, though, there was no prince to tell you what to do, so your guy could have decided to wear both ribbons and no one could tell him different.

I have a roll of the gold and silver Ehrenmedaillen associated with the Ehrenkreuz. It goes from 1909, when Karl Günther von Schwarzburg-Sondershausen died and Günther Victor von Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt took over both principalities. It does not include awards for war service, although I don't know if there were any war awards (officers and senior NCOs got the Ehrenkreuz mit Schwertern, but regular NCOs and enlisted men got the Medal for Merit in War). There is no roll for the Verdienstmedaille and the Anerkennungsmedaille, just piles of correspondence. There was some correspondence during the war about the Ehrenmedaille. Apparently, the silver medal was awarded to NCOs after 12 years of good service. During the war, the commanders of IR 71 and IR 96 asked whether the medal would be awarded, and if double-counting of war years would count. I couldn't find a response, but I think the Schwarzburg officials thought it enough to get your Iron Cross and Schwarzburg Medal for Merit in War.

I just spent four days in Rudolstadt and one in Greiz. For Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt and Sondershausen, I found the missing records for the awards with Eichenbruch from Sondershausen, and an index of all gemeinsam awards, with a note as to which version was actually awarded (different ciphers). I also got the rolls of the lifesaving medal and the medal for arts and sciences. There is no roll for the 1905 jubilee medal, unfortunately. Apparently, the award criteria was to whomever the Staatsministerium deemed worthy. There were recommendation lists from various agencies, but no indication which were approved. For the Anna-Luisen Orden, the wartime award for women for war aid, there are lists, but index onkly has last name and husband's title, so one would have to go through the individual recommendations to get the additional information. There were only about 300 awards, but I didn't have time to go through them. I still have to go back to Rudolstadt next week (I am in Dresden now) to go through several thousand more pages of recommendations and correspondence to get the missing information on swords recipients. There are still going to be gaps, though. Other units had to provide justification for why someone should receive the Ehrenkreuz, but IR 71 just sent lists with rank and last name. For Reuss, the report is mixed. There is an index of non-swords awards through 1918, which I have, but there are almost no swords awards in that index (outside of some random awards with swords to Reuss government officials who were also officers in the Beurlaubtenstand). For Reuss junior line, the records of wartime swords awards were destroyed in a bombing raid in World War II. For Reuss elder line, the award files exist, but there are thousands of pages of recommendations, correspondence to determine eligibility, award documents, and receipts for awards. These files include all awards (Ehrenkreuz and associated medals to enlisted men) and also include rejected nominations. So one would have to slowly go through each document to confirm the award. I don't have time to go back there anytime soon, and it would take about a week to go through them all. There are no separate rolls or lists for the War Merit Cross, the pinback decoration, but some might be buried in the stack of recommendations. Regards

That database mainly only covers teachers in higher Prussian school service (Lehrer im höheren Schuldienst Preußens). So Gymnasial- and Oberrealschullehrer, for example, but not Volkschullehrer.

In the 16 May 1916 Prussian Verlustliste, he is listed as Johannes Holst, Lt.d.R., 11./RIR 207, vom RIR 84, geb. Hamersen, Zeven, † an seinen Wunden Feld.Laz. 2. II.A.K. According to the 1910 census, Hamersen was a village of 258 inhabitants, located in Landkreis Zeven, Regierungsbezirk Stade, Provinz Hannover. In the 1916 edition of the Zentralblatt für die gesamte Unterrichts-Verwaltung in Preussen, he is listed as "Johannes Holst, Volksschullehrer in Krukum, Leutn. d. R., † 1. 5.16." Again according to the 1910 census, Krukum was a village of 830 inhabitants in Landkreis Melle, Regierungsbezirk Osnabrück, Provinz Hannover.

Indeed. Here is a picture I took of one of the display cases a few years ago.

The class bias I mentioned in the Austro-Hungarian orders system might also be a factor for another reason. As you note, enlisted awards are relatively uncommon, but it seems that for officers the Austrians were more liberal. Here is an example page from the 1918 Ranglisten der K. K. Landwehr und der K. K. Gendarmerie, showing some infantry reserve Oberleutnants. In making the picture small enough to fit here, I know it's hard to read, but the most common little icons are the bronze and silver MVMs with Swords. For officers, this Signum Laudis was the basic award, more or less equivalent to the EK2. Also, about two dozen of these officers have the MVK 3rd Class with War Decoration. This rank list was current as of the end of 1917, and partially through Personalverodnungsblatt Nr. 50 of 1918. One also has the Order of the Iron Crown. I imagine many of these officers added more decorations in the last year of the war. This isn't scientific, but does give a little extra color. I imagine active officers would have more awards, but I don't have an active officer rank list after 1916. On the other hand, officers in other branches might have fewer awards than these Oberleutnants, who were probably mostly infantry company commanders. I don't think there is any way to figure out a breakdown between officers and enlisted men in the Prussian Army. Maybe for an individual regiment, if the regimental history has data on awards. Maybe you could do a comparison between similar units, a Prussian and an Austro-Hungarian infantry regiment, for example?

Hitler was a Gefreiter (lance corporal) in the Bavarian Army. Besides the Iron Crosses, he received the Bavarian Militärverdienstkreuz 3. Klasse mit Schwertern. You cannot really compare a decoration awarded, at least officially, without regard to rank like the Iron Cross with a rank-based awards system such as that used by Austria-Hungary (or Bavaria for that matter). There was a real north-south divide here. During World War I, most northern German states - Prussia, Oldenburg, both Mecklenburgs, Braunschweig, Anhalt, Lippe-Detmold, Schaumburg-Lippe, and the three Hanseatic cities - had as their main military award a decoration awarded without regard to rank. Most southern German states - Austria, Bavaria, Saxony, Württemberg, Baden, the Thuringian states, Hohenzollern. The only exceptions were Hesse-Darmstadt, basically a southern state, which awarded its General Honor Decoration "For Bravery" to generals and privates alike, and Waldeck, a northern state, which had a rank-based system. Prussia acceded to Austria-Hungary's rank-based system by awarding Iron Crosses only to officers and the Krieger-Verdienstmedaille to NCOs and enlisted men. So you have to account for all the Austro-Hungarian decorations and break down the comparison by ranks, but such data is not available for the Iron Cross. You would have to compare Iron Crosses to enlisted men and NCOs with bronze Bravery Medals and silver Bravery Medals and Iron Crosses to junior officers with the bronze or silver Military Merit Medal (Signum Laudis) on the ribbon of the Military Merit Cross. And some officers might skip the Military Merit Medal and get the Military Merit Cross 3rd Class with War Decoration as their initial bravery award, and maybe an Order of the Iron Crown as an Iron Cross 1st Class "equivalent". And for all but a minority of Prussians, the Iron Cross was all they would receive, while Austria-Hungary allowed for repeat awards. Also, the Iron Cross was awarded for military merit, not just bravery, so you would have to account for many similar awards of the Franz Josef-Orden with War Decoration and the Merit Crosses (gold, silver and iron with and without crown) on the ribbon of the Bravery Medal. For example, k.u.k. Oberleutnant and later Wehrmacht Generalleutnant Gustav Adolph-Auffenberg-Komarów received the Bronze Signum Laudis on the ribbon of the Military Merit Cross on 7 December 1914, the Military Merit Cross with War Decoration and Swords on 30 July 1915, the Silver Signum Laudis on the ribbon of the Military Merit Cross on 15 May 1916, and the Order of the Iron Crown 3rd Class with War Decoration and Swords on 12 December 1916. He also received the Iron Cross 2nd Class in 1916. On the enlisted side, I don't have the exact dates, but Anton Haberhauer received the Silver Bravery Medal 2nd Class in 1914, a second award of the Silver Bravery Medal 2nd Class in 1916, the Silver Bravery Medal 1st Class in 1916, a second award of the Silver Bravery Medal 1st Class later in 1916, the Golden Bravery Medal also in 1916, and the Silver Merit Cross with the Crown on the ribbon of the Bravery Medal in 1917. That's six awards, four in 1916 alone. For what it's worth, Haberhauer finally did receive the Iron Cross, 1st and 2nd Class, in June 1941 and the German Cross in Gold in December 1941. Gustav Adolph-Auffenberg-Komarów got the 1939 clasp to his EK2 and the 1939 EK1 and German Cross in Gold. Regards

No interest? Oh well. Anyway, this particular - to me unusual - combination was: 1. EK2 2. Bavarian Military Merit Cross 2nd Class with Swords 3. Honor Cross for Combatants, and 4. Mecklenburg-Schwerin Life-Saving Medal on the ribbon of the Order of the Wendian Crown The last one was received in 1906 as a Gymnasiallehrer in Berlin, and the recipient was not a Mecklenburger, so I imagine that the person he saved must have been. The official Mecklenburg-Schwerin name was, I believe, the Silberne Medaille für eine rühmliche Handlung, and the ribbon of the order specifically meant the "praiseworthy act" (rühmliche Handlung) was life-saving. Also, he wasn't a Bavarian either. He was a Prussian native and received the Bavarian decoration in 1918 as a Vizefeldwebel with Armee-Wetterwarte 16, which for some reason counted as a Bavarian formation. He was still teaching in Berlin in 1942, so if you ever see this combination out there, it might have a Treuedienst-Ehrenzeichen as well. Regards

Bernhard's right. It is Italian. The first line starts "Guardaci e ...", which is "look at us and ...", but I can't make out the rest. I can't make out the first word on the second line, but after the comma is "con affetto", or "with affection".

Bringing this back up for two reasons. 1. The Schwarzburg rolls are pretty much done, except for a missing page the archives didn't copy. I will be in Rudolstadt in September to finish that and to look up some other information. I will be looking through the award recommendations (Vorschläge) for missing biographical information like first names and, if I'm lucky, other awards. I will also try to get the rolls for some other awards like Ehrenmedaillen with the Eichenbruch, 1905 Jubilee Medal, and whatever else I can find and afford to copy. 2. Another little combination quiz. What possibilities do you see in this combination of awards? Hint - #4 is not the House Order of the Wendian Crown.

Here are two from picture postcards from 1915 and 1916. These were from an (eBay?) auction that I think someone on the forum won, so maybe he has better scans. http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_08_2012/post-432-0-06068300-1345180731.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_08_2012/post-432-0-39119200-1345180743.jpg