Dave Danner

It does seem counter-intuitive. But consider: the 3. Klasse mit Krone und Schwertern was awarded to Unteroffizieren ohne Portepee, and later in the war, sometimes as a second award to Mannschaften who already had the 3. Klasse mit Schwertern. There were tens thousands of these (maybe hundreds of thousands?), so some 70,000+ awards is not too surprising. The 3. Klasse mit Krone und Schwertern am Bande für Kriegsverdienst was awarded to whom? Feld-Postillon, Magazinleiter? Who else? How many of those were there? A nice rare bare you have.

His first name was Wilhelm.

It looks like Obersturmführer Theobald.

Maj. Köhler of FAR 58 was the commander of RFAR 18 in 1917. I don't know when he originally took command.

According to the Lexikon der Wehrmacht, Aufkl.Rgt. 6 was formed on 10 November 1937 with two Abteilungen: I./Aufkl.Rgt. 6 was the former Aufkl.Abt. 6 and II./Aufkl.Rgt. 6 was the former Aufkl.Abt. 8. This only lasted a year, and the regiment was dissolved, with the Abteilungen reverting to their old names. So the dates match up with your guy's career, but he may have also changed battalions. It's not Grolig. His signature is actually pretty clear:

Matthias Feuerheerd Paul Friedrich Grautoff Hans Wilhelm Otto von Lengerke, 12.4.1874-12.5.1933 Hans von Troilo, 25.11.1865-21.1.1934 Pour le mérite on 5.7.18 You got it. Richard Walter, died 31.8.1922. Max Hans von Fabeck

Hermann Nadolny

Engelbert von dem Busch, 1861-1920. He took command of 4.GRzF on 4.7.1914. Promoted to Oberst on 19.8.14 and Generalmajor on 6.11.17.

Could probably go in the World War II signatures as well: Wilhelm Adolf Reinhard, 18.3.1869-18.1.1955 char. Gen.d.Inf. - 18.3.39 SS-OGruf - 9.11.41 Gen.d.Inf. - 1.3.43 Member of the Reichstag, 1936-45 Head of the Kyffhäuserbund, 1934-1943 Pour le mérite with Oakleaves, etc.

Siegfried Graf zu Eulenburg-Wicken, 10.10.1870-18.10.1961. Recipient of the Pour le mérite with Oakleaves and the Großes Bundesverdienstkreuz, among other decorations.

Would you believe that's "v. Bismarck"? Friedrich Wilhelm Eduard von Bismarck, 23.7.1870-5.11.1916, gefallen als Fhr., 1.GRzF.

One as a Generaloberst: One more example, along with a handwritten note: Both are from evaluation reports for Georg Ritter von Hengl.

Thanks for the correction. I didn't know about the 1918 statute. I wish I had my reference books with me.

I think there are many factors at play. One thing to keep in mind is that while we often call these other awards that state's "equivalent" to the Prussian Iron Cross, in fact they were not "equivalent" in many respects. The most obvious basic factor is that the Iron Cross, while technically a Prussian award, also was effectively the principal German combat award. So an award of the Iron Cross to a Bavarian was not the same as an award of the Mecklenburg Military Merit Cross or the Hesse General Honor Decoration for Bravery to a Bavarian, for which you usually needed some other reason like a birth connection or unit honorary chief. A Bavarian was considered for the Iron Cross based on the merits of his deeds. Whether he was also considered for the Military Merit Order/Military Merit Cross was a separate question. Usually, but not always, states responded to the award of the Iron Cross with the award of their own bravery/military merit decoration for the same deed. But even then, there might be a time lag. A second factor is that these awards were not "equivalent". They in fact did have different award criteria. Many state awards were treated as general military merit decorations, while at least in the early stages of the war, the Iron Cross still had a fairly exalted status. It was primarily for bravery or excellent leadership in combat, secondarily for staff officers for successful planning of combat operations, and far less common for acts of military merit away from the immediate front. Early war documents, newspaper reports, death announcements and the like refer to "Knights of the Iron Cross" ("Die Ritter des Eisernen Kreuzes"), while for most other non-orders, one was an "Inhaber" (the phrase "Inhaber des Eisernen Kreuzes" is also quite common, though). Obviously, there were exceptions and this evolved as the war dragged on, but the general idea remained that the Iron Cross was something special. The Bavarian Military Merit Order/Military Merit Cross with Swords, however, was a continuation of a peacetime general military merit decoration. It had a prestige, but not quite the same. And it was from the outset awarded for war merit not involving direct conflict at the front. The Brunswick War Merit Cross and the Oldenburg Friedrich August Cross had the same issue, such that later in the war devices were added - the Bewährungsabzeichen for the Brunswick cross and the "Vor dem Feinde" clasp for the Oldenburg cross - to distinguish combat awards from other war merit awards (the non-combatant ribbons were a separate issue with their own criteria). A third factor, which Chris and Ulsterman allude to, is who decided on the award. Authority to award the Iron Cross was delegated down the line pretty early in the war, wasn't it? You didn't have to go to the orders chancery in Berlin for approval. I have no idea when or how low the Bavarian King delegated his award authority, but it might not have been the same. Some other states (I think maybe Anhalt and Lippe-Detmold, for example?) generally required orders chancery approval for any military award, at least early in the war. So that could create a lag between award of the Iron Cross and award of the home state award. The photo at question, then, could be as Claudius suggests, for awards at different times, but maybe for yet another reason. Bavarian MVK recipient was recommended earlier but only approved by a higher authority at the same time that EK recipient was approved. EK recipient might have been recommended for an MVK as well, but is still awaiting approval. Or EK guy was at the front and MVK guy was further to the rear. Or the commander was just spreading the wealth, using his Prussian EK authority to recognize some guys and his Bavarian MVK authority to recognize other guys, rather than giving the same guy both awards.

I scanned these years ago as "unknown", although to be honest I can't remember if I ever posted them here or at WAF for identification:

A few more:

Hi! My collection is not all that large, and is mainly elite unit insignia and qualification badges, with a few others thrown in. Some examples: http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2012/post-432-0-79471800-1329684120.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2012/post-432-0-40831400-1329684094.jpg http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2012/post-432-0-23035900-1329684108.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2012/post-432-0-73427800-1329684164.jpg

The decorations which could be worn on the ribbon of the Bravery Medal (Tapferkeitsmedaille) were: Order of Franz Joseph (Franz Joseph-Orden) Military Merit Cross (Militärverdienstkreuz) Military Merit Medal (Militärverdienstmedaille) (so called "Signum laudis") (silver (Silberne MVM) and bronze (Bronzene MVM)) Merit Cross (Verdienstkreuz) (six varieties: Goldenes VK mit der Krone, Goldenes VK, Silbernes VK mit der Krone, Silbernes VK, Eisernes VK mit der Krone, Eisernes VK) All of these could be awarded on the ribbon of the Bravery Medal with or without swords (although the pre-WW1 Military Merit Cross without swords or war decoration is extremely rare). All but the Franz Joseph-Orden could be awarded with the repeat award clasp (Wiederholungsspange). The Wiederholungsspange for the Signum Laudis (silver and bronze) and the Bravery Medal was silver. The Wiederholungsspange for the Military Merit Cross and the Merit Cross was gilt. I don't have my references handy but I recall reading somewhere that the Golden and Iron Merit Crosses with Crown were the only versions of the Merit Cross with a Wiederholungsspange. I don't know why the Silver Merit Cross or the Merit Crosses without Crown wouldn't be able to have one. I believe the Franz Joseph Orden and the Merit Crosses were more typically awarded to staff, support and technical personnel (FJO for officers and VK for NCOs and the like). Your bar is likely as you and Iver agree - ÖM3Kg, ÖsMVM, ÖbMVM, KTK, Mob. Cross. The KTK says front-line soldier, and the lack of any bravery medals or a long-service cross rules out the NCO types who might have received multiple Merit Crosses with Swords. And an officer's bar with the FJO is out because that would come first and wouldn't have a Wiederholungsspange. For a frontline officer, the next award after the ÖM3K and the Signum Laudis was usually the Order of the Iron Crown with War Decoration and Swords, or later in the war the Gold or Large Silver Bravery Medal for officers. Or both: Foreign officers didn't get the Signum Laudis, so they would get the ÖM3K first, and then maybe an Iron Crown:

The word underneath is "baldmöglichst", which just means ASAP. So no help on a last name. It basically says "One large rosette", names the medals, then "orders in original enclosed, 4 pieces, for Erich, ASAP". I would guess the name at the bottom (Waiden?) is the clerk who took the order.

Claus Philipp Maria Justinian Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg, 15.11.07-21.7.44. SIgnature on the officer evaluation report for Hptm.(W) Friedrich Henkel.

Rudolf Everhard Friedemann Mackensen von Astfeld, born 1.7.1884 in Straßburg in Elsaß (Strasbourg). Entered service on 31.10.03 as a Fahnenjunker in Jäger-Bataillon Nr. 3. Served in World War I with JB 3 and as a MG-Offizier with IR 375, Armeeabteilung Scheffer, LIR 17, 85.Ldw.Div., Geb.-MG-Abt. 213, Ers.-Geb.-MG-Abt. 3, and MS-Scharfsch.-Kdo. West Tongern. Retired on 16.1.20 as a char. Major. Returned to duty on 1.6.35 as a Maj.(E) (with effect from 1.3.35 and an RDA of 1.6.32). Kdr. WBK Wuppertal from 1.4.36 to 3.3.39, then Kdr. WBK Goslar from 1.4.39 to 15.1.45. Oberstleutnant on 1.3.39 (23), Oberst on 1.2.42 (56).

A little bit more: his last officer evaluation report mentions that he had leukemia. Also, his older sister, Maria Elisabeth (Else) Epstein, née Beling, was a politician in the German Democratic Party (DDP) and married to Dr. Wilhelm Epstein, a Jewish scientist and like her a Frankfurt Stadtverordneter. Dr. Epstein died or was killed in 1941, and she was in Ravensbrück concentration camp from 1942 to 1943. After the war, she was one of the founders of the Christian Democratic Union (CDU).

Ludwig Heinrich Beling, born 21.11.1883 in Frankfurt am Main. Entered service on 28.7.02 as a Fahnenjunker in 4. Badisches Feldartillerie-Regiment Nr. 66. Served in World War I in FAR 66 and RFAR 57 (Kdr. II./RFAR 57 from 8.6.17 to 28.12.18). Retired as a char. Maj. in 1920. Returned to duty in 1934 and retired again on 31.1.36, only to be called back on 1.6.36 as Kdr. WBK Kreuznach. Oberstleutnant on 1.3.39 (13) and Oberst on 1.2.42 (50). Transferred to the Führerreserve on 1.10.44 and retired yet again on 31.12.44.

I believe you are correct. There appear to be two Bührings - both armaments NCOs turned Rechnungsführer with the Verdienstkreuz in Silber and in Gold. The problem is, no Staatskalendar or Regierungsblatt seems to have both. One dissapears, the other appears, then the first reappears. Oberfeuerwerker Bühring was named to replace Rechnungsführer Siefke as Rechnungsführer der Artillerie on 30.11.1863. As Zahlmeister, he is was awarded the Verdienstkreuz in Silber on 1.6.1871. He was transferred from the Artillerie to JB 14 on 6.7.1872. He received the Verdienstkreuz in Gold on 19.3.1887. Bühring II is a Zeugfeldwebel a.D., but no idea when "i.D." He gets the Verdienstmedaille in Silber on 20.2.1883, character as Rechnungsführer on 29.9.1884, Verdienstkreuz in Silber on 19.3.1889, Verdienstkreuz in Gold on 19.3.1895, and character as Rechnungsrat on 17.9.1905. So here is the problem: which one is the Bühring in the Staatskalendar? In the 1878 Staatskalendar, Zahlmeister Bühring of JB 14 is shown with the MVK2, PrMEZ/AEz, Baden Gedächtnismedaille, 1866 Cross and 1870/71 KDM, and Mecklenburg DA. The Bühring in 1905 has the same awards, except the MVK2 is now an MVK1, the 1866 Cross isn't listed, and the KO4, MSGMFFIII, and MVM2 are added. So, either (1) Georg Bühring is the one in the 1905 Staatskalendar and did get the MVM2 at some point, or (2) Bühring II not only followed Georg Bühring in getting the MVK1 and Rechnungsführer/Rechnungsrat characterization, but also followed him in serving in 1849, 1866, 1870/71 and getting the KO4, PrMEZ/AEz, and the Baden medal. Or the editors of the Staatskalendar somehow managed to mix the two of them up. Two different people with the same name and almost identical careers? Color me confused.

From what I have: Bühring received the Charakter as a Rechnungsführer on 29.9.1884. He was given the Charakter as a Rechnungsrat on 17.9.1905. He was awarded the Verdienstkreuz in Silber on 19.3.1889 as a Rechnungsführer a.D. Based on his entry in the 1905 Staatskalendar, he later received the Verdienstkreuz in Gold, but I don't have a date. He was awarded the Verdienstmedaille in Silber on 20.2.1883 as a Zeugfeldwebel a.D. Since that is before the Verdienstkreuz, shouldn't that be on the medal bar? Besides the Verdienstkreuz in Gold, the 1905 Staatskalendar also shows the Gedächtnismedaille für Friedrich Franz III. For some reason, the Staatskalendar entries all say Prussian Militärehrenzeichen rather than Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen. The 1866 Erinnerungskreuz is not included in the 1905 list, but it does show up in earlier ones. Here is the 1905 Staatskalendar entry, where he is shown as a member of the supervisory committee of the NCO Widow's Fund. He is not in the 1906 Staatskalendar. These entries are: Verdienstkreuz in Gold Verdienstmedaille in Silber Gedächtnismedaille Friedrich Franz III Militär-Dienstauszeichnung 1. Klasse für Unteroffiziere Prussian Kronenorden 4. Klasse Prussian Militärehrenzeichen (typo for the AEz ?) Baden Gedächtnismedaille für 1849 Kriegsdenkmünze 1870/71 Regards, Dave