Ed_Haynes

Simple advice: BOOKS BOOKS BOOKS and other printed sources. First, second, and always. Get them first, read them, consume them, arm yourself with knowledge. Then (and only then) move on to the orders and medals. And, I'd argue, go when you can (that is, have the cash) for the best thing(s) you can afford (from reliable dealers ONLY). Face it, the low-end stuff will always be available (we are talking availability, not price), but the better things you may not see again or at least for a long time. Things that were fairly common only a few years back are never seen now, but the Victory over Germany Medal will always (?) be available. I'd argue that it is better to buy one top-quality researchable item than a drawer full of WWII campaign medals.

Ohhhhh ... nice! We await the full story!

A really nice thread, Gerd. Well done. The only thing I might add is the "Soviet medal books" thread over on the OMSA site: http://www.omsa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=613

Gerd- Igor has several, of various types. And, even at "Igor-prices", they aren't so bad. And they sure are pretty! Ed

Yeah, nice medals. While my mommie group http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=7234 recipient didn't make it all teh way to hero, she seems to have had an exciting career. Still have outstanding hopes and requests for research on her.

Same here, but if that is enamel damage on the red banner you may want to pass. Readily available from the reliable dealers!

I think, if we are to make any sense out of this, we need to categorize-out the awards to: 1- cosmonauts, whether domestic or foreign friends 2- political high-flyers, whether domestic or foreign friends These two are "special cases" and talking too much about them (however interesting it may be) won't get us, I think, too far toward understanding what the HSU was and how it worked. Likewise, as has been suggested already, just thinking of the HSU in terms only of its role in the GPW may distort our view? It had a life and role before 1941 and after 1945. And, while I'm walking on thin research ice here, I think the post-Soviet hero is a quite different beast that the Soviet award, filling a very different niche. (Pretty picture below, from Central Museum of Armed Forces, to excite our souls.) Just some random thoughts . . . .

Group 4: 1-2-3-4 (We must assume the groups are "kosher", but at this museum -- except for Zhukov's -- I'm fairly confident.)

Group 4: 1-blank-blank-3 (screwback?!) (!!!!!!!!!!!)

Group 3: 1-blank-3

Group 2: 1-2-3

Wow, Christian. A lot to ponder here. Let me throw into the soup some images from the Central Musuem of the Armed Forces in Moscow, taken last summer. Someplace, I have incomplete (sorry ) notes, but right now the names don't matter, the groups do. Group 1: 1-2-3 (Many of these have been posted elsewhere, sorry, but relevant here, I think.)

Yes, while it is it is great fun!

Have put some of my Omani guests up over at http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=2785 and have more I should/could add over there.

No, Gerd, those are just fine. They looks like ones I have too. Bought them in Berlin for 15 Euro Cents from a real Russian, so they must be good.

An entirely worthy recycling project!

Come now, comrades, you can get an ORB "7" or "8" or "9" at almost any Manion's auction and I bet there are some on eBay right now!

Beyond supposition and theory, it would be interesting to get Kozhedub's file and see what it says. If nothing else, his recommendations would make interesting reading! And where are his medals now?

Thanks, mate. I love learning things . . .

Me too. So . . . Rick, are you saying this is OK?

Nice! The history is intact. Once removed, it'd be gone forever. And to think some collectors would like this to be all shiny and sparkly!!

I thought that when eBay admitted to "wearer's copy" that translated as "100% fake"?

Much as believe in the value of "the records" -- more, I think, than most -- I'm not sure how much the familiar records will help us here. We'll be able to get, as we have in print (right?), a list of people who were awarded, let's say, the ORB 7 times. I am choosing my words carefully: they were given the award that number of times, these records can't tell us what their badge looked like, that is not the function of the commonly-consulted records. To determine what was ACTUALLY awarded, it will require close examination of photographs or, better yet, of the groups themselves. When we see a photo like that of Kozhedub which Christian put before us, we then have the other side of the evidence: what the awardee's insignia actually looked like. To answer the question from the records will require looking at records of the mint, to see what badge(s) they actually struck. (And this gets us back to Christian's earlier query as to how the mint actually functioned.) But one thing is clear, all governments keep records of one thing in particular: how they spend their money. Whether capitalist or socialist, spending money by the State always generates a paper trail and these awards cost money to produce (though, should we ever find the records, we may well be shocked at how little they cost). Striking ORBs with the numbers "7", "8", or "69" at the mint would have required modest retooling and this would have left even more of a paper trail. All the records that folks like us commonly see are military (reflecting our pro-military bias) and the few records of civilian awards are still exotic to folks like us; what we haven't seen are any records or research from the mint side. I don't pretend to know how Soviet-era archives are organised, of if they are even organised, but this seems like the research agenda that will be needed. Until then, we have lists of recipients and may be able to assemble photographic evidence of the awards in wear?

Yes!! Agreed. They aren't my pictures, from Mongolian TV after all. Read the translation - seems "interesting" for the rock treatment of these sentiments! I think "Mr. Jewelery" is the chap behind the apparently GREAT rock opera (yes!) on Chengiz Khan (yes yes!!). Wasn't able to get tickets when I was in UB. Sold out.

For those who want to sing along: See: http://www.linguamongolia.co.uk/page71.html Rough English: The site has more, including the anthem in bichig, cyrillic, and transliteration. It is a SUPER site otherwise!