censlenov

Top row left to right KCB ribbon, Queens Sudan medal, Queens South Africa medal, 1914 or 15 star, 14-18 British war medal Bottom Row left to right 14-19 allied victory medal, Order of Mejidie, Legion de honnour with rosette, Croix de guerre 14-18, Khedives Sudan medal. The bottom row is a bit hard to make out but i feel that this is what's there. Cheers Chris

British war medals and Victory medals to officers in the British army were never issued with unit information on them only the 14 and 15 stars had unit info for officers. This Ind pair is 100% correct and there is a very good chance there is a photo of your man somewhere given his rank. Cheers Chris

Kevin is 100% i would also like to add that 14 and 15 stars to officers would also show unit. I also know medals to Australian officers have AIF after the naming. Unnamed medals are sometimes found in groups most likely as replacements obtained by collectors to "complete a group". Cheers Chris

Hello Timo In my mind the victory medal could be to someone in the French Red Cross see below http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=6278093&queryType=1&resultcount=11 It wouldn't be an officers medal as they were issued named with a rank. I would feel pretty confident that the above card is your recipient. Royal irish stars arn't uncommon if his service file is on ancestry it may be a good idea to take a read and see if there is anything that sets this start out from others. cheers Chris

Hi Tim Another interesting fact i came across was that there was a Lt. D C F Bliss in the Midland Battalion during the Northwest canada rebellion i wonder if they're the same man? I'm going to keep looking for that citation now. Cheers Chris

I don't think they have anything to do with ww2 and don't look like any kind of ordnance i've ever seen. In my day job i have seen these before however or atleast models very similar. They appear to be teeth from a pavement milling machine. They are replaceable when they wear out. check out this page about half way down. http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.intermountaindrillingsupply.com/uploads/kenbits.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.intermountaindrillingsupply.com/content/index.asp%3Fpage%3D24&usg=__PeE-OgbozqcBV4f7WMwplu59ex4=&h=199&w=145&sz=6&hl=en&start=38&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=jBxVwJUg3feQCM:&tbnh=104&tbnw=76&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmilling%2Bteeth%26start%3D21%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1T4ADSA_enCA332CA332%26ndsp%3D21%26tbs%3Disch:1 The tooth appearance varies depending on manufacturer. But they all are pretty similar. Cheers Chris

I'm certain that is the case and that it was during Liz's Reign as i just saw a picture of one today named up to ship. I'll try and track down the date. Cheers Chris

Falkland medals do indeed have the ship listed on the edge. I believe all other campaign medals only list RN, but i'm not 100% sure about the most modern issues. LS&GC's also list ship. cheers Chris

What is the diameter of the disc? I want to see if what i've heard is true about this type of copy. Cheers Chris

Bars and MID

Nice medal Darrell I've just traded a nice GSM 18-62 today as a matter of fact here's some pics. cheers Chris

Hi Alan you'll have to either resize the photo to under 110kb's (to paste on the forum) or upload to photobucket and paste a link. Cheers Chris

Could you please post a picture of the medal or desrcibe it abit. You've got me interested with such a great story. Cheers Chris

You can apply for his service record as he's been dead for more than 25 years the cost is 30GBP. Visit the British Medal Forum and search "freedom of information requests". There is a large topic covering the application details. I just applied for an Army officers records and received a letter on Monday confirming they had them and that they would dispatch them within 3-4 weeks. It was a very slick operation. Cheers Chris

To me it looks like there are 2 more die flaws one between the 00 in 800 (runs vertically) and the other between the /1 (also running vertically). What do you think? Cheers Chris

Not in a bizzilion years is that a period tunic. Looks like a modified East German tunic. Cheers Chris

I think these snaps date from around 36-39 thats based on the webbing on the Brits and the rifles being used. Perhaps depicting the Northwest Frontier during that time? Cheers Chris

Thanks kindly for the compliments gents thats some very high praise in my books. The group i'm researching right now is going to be very impressive as i'm going to be interviewing the recipients nephew who was raised by his uncle. Cheers Chris

Hi John Welcome to the forum. My Great Grandfather was a Bessarabian consript into the Czars army in WW1 after the war in 1928 he moved to South Eastern Alberta. I've always wanted to find out more about his service however i don't know if any such records survive. Cheers Chris

108380 L\Sgt Robert Fergusson Messenger 3rd CMR/ 1st CMR The Pre War Years Robert Fergusson Messenger was born April 24th 1884 at Maryport Cumberland England to a Mrs. Mary Ann Messenger. In 1901 Robert was still living at home but apprenticing as a Mason at the age of 16. Sometime after 1901 but before 1911 he immigrated to Canada and settled out west to begin his new life. This new life however found Robert capitalizing on the old trade he had learned and soon he found work as a Bricklayer in Redcliff Alberta. Redcliff is a town within Cypress County immediately northwest of Medicine Hat. The town stands on the banks of the South Saskatchewan River and at the time was still in its infancy. With the discovery of abundant coal and natural gas reserves in the 1880's and easy access to these resources Redcliff began to be promoted as the "Smokeless Pittsburgh of the West". This drew industries that produced such diverse products as shoes, gloves, cigars, trucks, bricks, glass, flour and more. The Redcliff Brick & Coal Company was situated on the south side of the town and supplied the whole of the southern part of the province with coal and clay bricks. The coal mine operated until the early 1950s and the brick factory was in operation until the early 1960s. It was here that Rudyard Kipling made his famous statement about the community having "all hell for a basement" and being "the town that was born lucky". The Great War Years 1914-Vimy Ridge With the declaring of war and the call to arms echoing across western Canada Robert soon found himself about to enlist. The 3rd Canadian Mounted Rifles in Medicine Hat were recruiting at the time and on December 18 1914 Robert signed his attestation papers. Following his arrival in England and an extended posting to a reserve depot Robert proceeded to France and joined the rest of the 3rd CMR on December 22nd 1915 (which just barely qualifies him for the 1914-15 star). His time with the 3rd CMR was short lived however as the order to disband the unit was given and 2 companies were assigned to both the 1st CMR and 2nd CMR. Robert was among those transferred to the 1st CMR. Robert served with the 1st CMR until he was attached to the 2nd A T Company Canadian Engineers on April 10th 1916 (Can anyone help with what A T means?). His time attached to the 2nd AT Coy. CE ended on May 2nd 1916 with him then being sentenced to 14 days field punishment number 1 (FP No.1) on the 4th for drunkenness. The Battle of Mount Sorrel (2nd-14th June 1916) was extremely devastating to the 1st CMR. The Battle opened with the heavy bombardment of the Canadian positions followed by the detonation of 4 mines right in front of the Canadian positions followed directly after by an assault of 6 German battalions. Early in the assault the 1st CMR's HQ was hit and many officers were killed including the Co. Lt. Col. Shaw. Under immense pressure the 1st battalion was forced to fall back and was subsequently removed from the line to regroup. Of the 21 officers in the line at the time 5 were killed 5 were wounded and 10 were missing. Of the 671 OR's only 135 mustered up when roll was taken the rest were either killed wounded or taken prisoner. On June 3rd Robert was admitted to Stationary Hospital 13 at Boulogne with a gunshot wound to his right elbow which was then treated. He was then sent to Number 11 Convalescence Hospital at Boulogne on the 6th and was discharged to base details. On the 18th he once again rejoined the 1st CMR in the field. Four days later Robert was given 10 days of Fp No.1 for using insubordinate and insolent language to an NCO. On July 4th have come freshly off serving his punishment he was promoted to Corporal. With the battalion once again up to strength it re entered the line and served in the battle of the Somme (July 1st-November 1916) seeing a great deal of participation in the battle of Flers-Courcelette (Sept 15-22nd 1916), and also The Battle of Ancre Heights (October 1st- November 11th 1916). Having managed to avoid further wounds Corporal Messenger ended 1916 with 10 days leave to England Rejoining his unit on the 9th of January 1917. On April 2nd 1917 Robert was promoted to Lance Sergeant. A week later the 1st CMR found themselves in the battle of Arras (April 9th May 16th 1917) in the thick of the fighting for Vimy Ridge and it was here that he earned himself the Military Medal. Vimy Ridge The following is the written account of the Battle for Vimy Ridge from the 1St CMR War Diaries. REPORT OF OPERATIONS CARRIED OUT BY THE lst C.M.R. BATTALION on the 9th APRIL 1917. Frontage allotted to the Bn in which it was to attack, capture and consolidate was as follows:- First; the German Front Line System of Trenches, situated approximately beyond a point running from the Twins Craters to and inclusive of B.4 Crater. Second; the SWISCHEN STELLUNG Trench from the Sunken Road on the left and, approximately, Dump Avenue on the right. Third; and final objective; extending from the beginning of the Sunken Road at S.29.b.6.1 to ANDROS CORNER at S.29.d.8.l/2, From there in a southerly direction to the junction of the Cross Roads S.29.d.7.2 Complete detailed Operation Orders ware issued to each Company the day previous to the attack. D Company at that time was holding our then Front Line C Coy was in supports at NEUVILLE ST-VASST; and B and A Coys had been moved up to NEUVILLE ST-VASST. occupying cellars and dug-outs in that locality Separate Jumping Off Trenches had been prepared for each Coy of the Battalion and, commencing at 2 a.m. on the morning of the 9th, the Coys moved from their different locations into their respective jumping off trenches; all being in position before 4 a.m. The 2nd C.M.R. Bn. was also assembled during the night in jumping off trenches on our left and the 5th Canadian Infantry Brigade on our right. Zero hour was fixed for 5.30 a.m. and three minutes after zero all companies were to advance. D Coy occupied the front jumping off trench and were to take the first German system of trenches. C Coy. who occupied the next jumping off trench, ware to take the SWISCHEN STELLUNG. B Coy, occupying the next jumping off trench, were to go through both the others and take the final objective; while A Coy was to go through all other three companies and establish Strong points a considerable distance In front of the final objective. The advance was preceded by a three minute barrage on the first German line and immediately the barrage lifted to the second line all four Companies of the Battalion left their jumping off trenches and followed each other across in the order above named. As soon as we had reached a point where the German lines were discernible flares of all descriptions could be seen along the whole German front, evidently ''S.O.S." Signals; and what barrage the enemy was able to put on came very quickly. The leading Company - "D" -had to pass through it before they were in the German front line. And each Company in turn had to go through it, and in doing so attained rather a considerable number of casualties. D Company were not long In cleaning up the three front lines. Machine gun crews were immediately placed on the enemy's lip of the craters and as far as was necessary covered the advance of the front troops. The front lines were not strongly held but it is safe to say that not one of the enemy escaped from them.... All were either Injured or taken prisoners. The trenches end all immediate ground had been most terribly cut up by our artillery. After crossing No Man's Land the advance of the troops was very difficult owing to their having to pick their way around the shell holes and soft spots. C. B. and A. Companies immediately pressed through D Company and on toward the SWISCHEN STELLUNG. Very little opposition was encountered from this trench, which was supposed to be the enemy's strong line. The barrage was followed by the troops step by step until the trench was finally reached. As on the front line, the wire along SWISCHEN STELLUNG had been completely cut by our artillery, and the trench Itself had been knocked to pieces, and practically all the dugouts smashed in. One platoon of C. Company followed up the PRINZ ARNOLF GRABEN Tunnel for the purpose of cleaning up any of the dug-outs which may have been left intact but they were found to be almost completely deserted and the entrances smashed in by our artillery. In fact, the whole ground was so completely smashed up that It was difficult even to follow the land marks and maintain proper direction. The FICKLE Trench was similarly manned by "C" Company immediately the barrage had lifted from it and the dug-outs there were found to be the same as in SWISCHEN STELLUNG - broken in and deserted. Up to this point officers and men were very severely handicapped in keeping direction, owing to a large number of men of the 5th Brigade breaking across our frontage and mixing up with our men. This fact, too, made it impossible to keep the different platoons together and the various platoons and companies got considerably mixed up. B. and A. Companies followed on through C. towards their final objective and found the condition of the ground, trenches and dug-outs practically the same as the SWISCHEN STELLUNG and below it. Some of the dug-outs, which had not apparently been destroyed, had almost been completely filled with water, but were all absolutely deserted. Practically no resistance was met with beyond the SWISCHEN STELLUNG Trench. Except some machine gun fire which came some considerable to the right of Dump Avenue. This trench was still well defined, and had not been smashed as badly as some of the others, but was almost in an impassable condition, and apparently very little attempt had been made recently to keep It in condition.... it is safe to say that hardly a dug-out below the final objective was in a habitable condition. No resistance was met with on the left. The final objective itself had been very badly smashed about, but the ARNOLF GRABEN Trench and the Sunken Roads were quite discernable, and served as plain landmarks By the time the final objective was reached not more than 50 or 60 men were available from, B. and A. Companies, and they were at once set to work digging in along the new frontage. A considerable number of prisoners were taken immediately on arrival there, principally from dug-outs along the Sunken Road and along the valley between DeBonval and LaFolie Woods. C, Company sent up all the reinforcements they could spare from SWISCHEN STELLUNG to the final objective, and A, Company proceeded out beyond to place their strong points. The dug-outs along the Sunken Road were all intact, and had been damaged but very little, and nearly all of the prisoners captured at the final objective were taken from them. The dug-outs were well supplied with rations, medical comforts and some equipment- Two strong points were established by A. Company, one at S.30.central and the other to the left across the valley at the end of LA FOLIE WOOD, overlooking VIMY. And communication was maintained by these outposts with the 2nd Battalion of the K.O.S.B.s on our right. The Battalions on out right and left at the final objective were connected Up with, very shortly after the final objective was reached. These two outposts were somewhat exposed to machine gun fire and sniping from VIMY, but casualties in holding them were not heavy.... Our new position was consolidated and held until we were relieved by the 60th Battalion on the night of April 11/13. Strong points were also established on the two flanks of the final objective. On the 10th the enemy could be seen moving small bodies of troops on the open plain beyond VIMY. These ware fired on by our artillery and dispersed; few of them entering VIMY and the balance retiring. On the morning of the 11th a considerable number of the enemy were seen retiring from VIMY and going across country towards AVION. During the morning and practically all the forenoon, our new position was very heavily shelled by the enemy's heavy artillery and a few casualties resulted. The position is a very strong, one and commands the country some distance to its front, as well as overlooking VIMY; and there is accommodation in the dug-outs in the immediate vicinity for a large number of men. Three of the dug-outs were burned... Two of them took fire it is believed, from an explosion, for which we could not account, and the third was set on fire by the enemy's guns. Very complete dressing stations were found amongst the dug-outs, and some of them contained a considerable number of wounded Germans. Some of these were evacuated, but it was impossible to evacuate them all, owing to the scarcity of stretchers and stretcher-bearers. Total Casualties for the Tour: -366 - Killed, Wounded and Missing. Prisoners taken estimated at - 350. Machine Guns Captured and taken out - 1. Unfortunately no definitive proof of which company L\Sgt Messenger served in seems to have survived however one thing is certain and that is he was awarded the Military Medal for his part in the taking of Vimy Ridge. Citation: For Gallantry in action, and in initiative. During operations on VIMY RIDGE, April 9th, 1917. His officer and platoon sergeant having become casualties early in the advance, this N.C.O. promptly took command of his platoon, and, during the whole operation, displayed marked initiative, and his great coolness and gallantry was an inspiration to all his men. (A.F.W.3121. 19-4-17.) Vimy Ridge - Discharge Robert was admitted to No.3 Canadian General Hospital at Boulogne on May 8th. He was diagnosed with a slight case of trench fever and was discharged to No. 10 Convalescent Depot at Ecault to recover. He left to rejoin his unit on the 23rd and by the 25th was back in the trenches. The 1st CMR earned itself battle honours for the Third Battle of Ypres (July 11th 10th November 1917) where it again served in the line in the battle of Hill 70 (15th August 25th August 1917) and the second battle of Passchendaele (26th October 10th November 1917) During the second battle of Passchendaele Robert was arrested and held in confinement awaiting trial from October 29th November 9th. He was charge from Drunkenness in that on October 29th he was found to be drinking and believed to be drunk. Following his trial he was found guilty and sentenced to have the seniority of his L\Sgt rank post dated from the 9th of November 1917. However the sentence was quashed and Robert was relieved of all consequences of the trial. On January 31st 1918 Robert reverted to the rank of Corporal at his own request. On the 7th of March he was appointed Armourer Corporal. In the last 100 days of the war the 1st CMR saw action at Amiens (8th-11th august 1918), Scarpe (26-30th August 1918), Canal du Nord (27th September 1st October 1918), Cambrai (8th-9th October 1918), Valenciennes (1st -2nd November 1918), and finally Mons 10th-11th 1918). Robert was granted 2 weeks leave on December 12th 1918 however he took a bit of an extended leave and wound up in front of a court martial for not returning until January 13th 1919. He was reduced to the ranks and forfeited 17 days pay. The 1st CMR left for England on the 12th of February and Robert boarder the RMS Baltic in Liverpool to sail home on March 12th. Robert was formally Discharged at Brandon Manitoba on March 24th 1919. For his service in France Robert was awarded the Military Medal, 1914-15 Star, British War medal, and Victory medal. Robert was also given a War Servce Badge Class "A" numbered 72829, as well as a Mons medallion. Post War Life Robert returned to Redcliff following the war where he met Emma Cockrell. Emma was a war widow with a young son who's husband Frederick Augustus Cockrell had been killed on April 11th 1916 whilst serving with the Royal Engineers. Robert and Emma were married in 1921 and had a son Robert Andrew Messenger in 1923 (who went on to serve in WW2 details to be posted later). In 1924 the family moved to Los Angeles California USA. All did not end well however as Robert passed away in 1930 (cause yet to be determined) and Emma several month later leaving the boys orphaned. This group was purchased off of Ebay last year and since receiving it i have dabbled in remounting it myself. Please feel free to comment on anything in this write up. Cheers Chris<BR clear=all>

Well i did a quick peruse of the OMSA database and came up with a police merit medal silver grade http://www.omsa.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=4480 There is a definate difference of quality between the ebay pieces and the omsa piece. However it is most likely due to modern manufacture standards vs past manufacture standards. My gut says they are probably just unissued pieces direct from the factory for collector sale. However i am not a collector of peruvian medals and am not the best person to comment. Cheers Chris

It's a bit hard to help when the link provided to the pictures doesn't work. did you take a look through the omsa online database and see if any were on it? Cheers Chris

Like getting shot at dawn or a wicked amount of FP No.1. Cheers Chris

Well that is interesting i hadn't heard that the rolls went into such detail. Great to know for future reference. Cheers Chris

Nice Haul Mostly from Ebay? Cheers Chris