Daniel Murphy

Doesn't look like much from the front. This one was brought back by (later in WW2) Col. Ferguson who was with the 30th Division in both wars. It was still attached to the piece of fieldgray uniform it was cut off of (not shown).

Nice Cut-out.

These have been seen before, but are repeated for our newer members. Plus, I just like 'em. Dan Murphy

He looks like Genghis Khan. Perhaps the Colonel in Chief? Just kidding. Nice print and interesting how the word evolved over the centuries. Dan Murphy

Stogie, That is exactly the first thing I thought when I saw this. Perhaps that Crown order is from another member of the family. Dan Murphy

I truly appreciate all your hard work, I guess it was just not to be this time. I just ran across it the other day when I got a uniform (not bought with the bar) out of storage and figured if anyone could ID it, it would be the members of this forum. Thanks again, Dan Murphy

I agree, go with the 8X56. The long rifles are hard to find and the updated caliber does not bother me in the least. Dan Murphy

As far as I know, the Turks used Gewehr 98's and 88s during WW1. Most of the Turkish 93's I have seen are dated in the 30's for some reason. They were long obsolete by then. Assuming this is a german mannekin, I would go with the 88. They are all german contract made (and therefore german issue)but were supplied to the turks after adoption of the 98. The '93 Turkish mauser looks nothing like anything german issue. Dan Murphy

OK, Since there is no long service, I think we can assume (dangerous word I know) that there are no pre war decorations moved up to the 2nd class. Therefore I believe we have a highly decorated junior officer with some awards possible as NCO or Fahnrich. Ribbon 8 is definitely orange and white like a RAO, but being ahead of the Honor Cross and placed next to the BH, it is possible the wrong ribbon was used to reprresent a HH. There was never a device on the Waldeck ribbon so Pre war? Here is what I think. 1. EK2 2. HHOX 3. BrK 4. HT 5. MVO4x or MVK?X 6. AO4X 7. WV4 or WsVM 8. HH 9. BH 10. HKX

Here it is. I just had to save it to other types of files 3 or 4 times to get a jpeg. Kind of looks like a device with the crown order with swords on top of a Wuerttemburg Gold Bravery medal wreath.

You are looking for a Mde 1886 needle bayonet. Like this one.

Could you fine gentlemen of the forum possibly identify who this bar belonged to? I have owned this for close to 20 years or so, therefore I know it is not a recent put-together. Some of the ribbons are frayed and the Bavarian and Saxon ribbons are missing their devices. I know this is unusual with so many ribbons from so many states, but I think it is real. No pre war decorations are present except for possibly ribbon 8 which could be a RAO or HHK. Interesting pin too..... Dan Murphy

Don, I would say cheap. Well, maybe not cheap, just frugal. If he were lazy he could have paid someone else to do it right. Typical vet add on medal bar.

Actually, this IS a berthier bayonet. So the fact that it does not fit your rifle, may not get you a refund. The problem is, that this a carbine bayonet and will not fit the rifle. Your rifle should take a standard lebel cruciform bayonet that was used on all rifles. Whomever in the French military that decided on two different bayonets that were not interchangable between long rifles and carbines, should have had his head examined. However, they went for it and the carbine bayonets are actually rather scarce and worth more. If the seller is a nice guy, he may give you the refund, but we are talking ebay here folks . Dan Murphy

Since there does not appear to be any markings and the rivets are done differently I would say this last one is Reichswehr or TR. The "canteen cup" designation is also a misnomer, in imperial times the cup was carried in the breadbag. It was not until the 30's that a provision was made for the cup to be worn on top of the canteen. I have a version without spout marked "Wuertt. Met. Fabr." and marked "12 A.F." to the 12th Artillerie Regt. zu Fuss. Since it is not dated it was made before the war. I have an emameled one marked "Gebr. Bing 16". Chris, Yours with the scratched marking is probably the soldiers initials "P.P."and that he belonged to the 6th Comp. of the 65th Regiment "6/65". Probably infantry, but there is no way to say for sure.

Andreas, Perhaps it is a squadron pin. I have a turkish aviators pin that is very similar to yours in size and pinback, but was made in Switzerland by Hugenin Freres. They are rare and I think a few units may have picked this habit up from captured flyers who often wore similar items. Here is mine, it is about 20mm. Dan Murphy

Rick, If I remember correctly this wrong translation was also used in another EK book as well. Thank you for clearing this up. Things can indeed get lost in the translation. Dan Murphy

Chris, As quoted in "The Iron Time" by Stephen Previtera on page 159. "The Iron Cross is to be awarded without exception to all persons of the Army, Navy and Home Guard, members of volunteer nursing units and to all other persons who offer their service to the Army or Navy or who are designated as Army or Navy officers. The award will be given for every sacrifice made during the war. Further, all persons who earn it by serving the needs of the German Empire and it's allies at home may receive the cross" Surely the Kaiser was not speaking of economic sacrifices, everyone made THEM. The wording is also very specific. It does not say "may be given" or "is to be awarded", it states "will be given". To my knowledge, there was no document or entry into the deceased's pay book. It would have been sent to the next of kin with a letter, or with the death cetificate. In WW2 the family was sent a Gold Wound Badge. There was no such thing as a wound badge in 1914. Dan Murphy

The reason so many EK 2s were awarded in WW1 is because for every soldier who died, an Iron Cross was "awarded" to the deceased and sent to the next of kin. In the renewal document, it states that "For every sacrifice in the war an Iron Cross will be given". This accounts for about 2 million of the over 5 million awarded. So... technically, all one had to do was get killed to receive one. Some might call that easy, unless you are the one doing the dying. You would never get to wear it of course, because you are dead. But, your family could frame it or put it under a glass dome to remember you by. Dan Murphy

The only thing I can imagine this to be for is a ladies patriotic pendant (perhaps showing her husband, fiance,beau had won the EK) or for a watch fob. Had it been larger (58-62mm) I would say it was a one sided Grand Cross for wearing or for a funeral pillow. Still a great piece either way it turns out. Dan Murphy

I have a WW2 pair. They are virtually identical, but in field grey with grey leather tabs. Yes, They are issue items Rick. Dan Murphy

It looks to me like a Prussian Napoleonic service medal (1815) and a Franco-Prussian War Medal. Is that even possible without the 1864 or 1866 medals and given his age? He looks to be in his 60's-70's. He would have to be much older for a napoleonic, say in his 80's (even if he was a young ensign then.) or 90's. I think he is wearing his medal and an ancestors medal. Since he is in the U.S. the regulations do not apply. Dan Murphy

A Bavarian veterans group.

I would say it is a jeweler repair. I have seen this type of repair several times on EKs. Most likely the oese broke off and took a piece of the frame with it. Great piece with character. Dan Murphy

I agree that it is a quality control or assemblers mark, definitely not the maker because this one is known (Deutsche Offizier Verein). Dan Murphy