peter monahan

I sit corrected. [I'd stand, but its' so tiring!] Going on my increasingly shaky memroy, Chris, rather than an evidence. Should have known you'd know better! Cheers.

In English we'd call them the 'eyepieces', which is actually not nearly as an exact description as 'ocular ring', the direct translation!

I get it, Zob! Wren was my first introduction to the Legion as well. And he actually served with the LE, back in the '20s when that was [briefly] a fashionable thing to do!

Great!

Just looking at the photo of the Legionnaires sitting around their barracks was enough to make my depression worse! Can't imagine living like that for any length of time - when fighting the Toureg begins to look like a good thing!

Unfortunately it is not simple to research a veteran from WWII. here is the e-dress of the National Archives, but apparently one needs to know from which state the veteran came to make much progress. Good luck. https://www.archives.gov/research/military/veterans/online.html

Yes, Harry does good work in his research and writing!

My only comment is somewhat negative: all of the editions of Gordon are deficient in their listing of Indian units present at various battles/on various campaigns. A friend, co-founder of the Indian Military History Society at one point generated a list of at least some of the ommissions, but that was several decades ago now and I have no idea whether or not it still exists. If you have information from other sources that the 28th Bombay were at Kandahar, I'd go with that! Peter

I agree with Tony: Pakistani. that star and crescent moon is used by a number of Pakistani police and par-military units, I believe, of which there seem to be many, Frontier Police, tribal police units, and so on. The '1916' is probably a key - likely one of the units raised by the British, on the NW Frontier, during WWI initially.

Simon, thanks for taking the time to provide such a complete answer for Rachel! One of the reasaons, I think, why some of us deserve the 'Gentlemen' moniker.

Nice. All pretty common Cdn badges, thought the Forestry Corps is a little unusual. It's where we parked the lumberjacks and underaged and overaged recruits during the Great War! A shoemanker from a local town, adult immigrant from the UK, served with them in the UK before dying of a heart attack in 1917 and at least one underage recruit, also on the local memorial in my town, was sent to them first.

Just this week I saw a photo of Lord A at the grave of one the RAMC double VCs, holding the cross and bar. Very cool and nice to see that His Lordship comes out for events like the commemoration of Passchaendale.

That makes even more sense. Well spotted, sir!

Roxfox It is impossible to say, without at least a little more info., exacly what your ancestor's award looked like, as the Order was awarded in multiple grades, five in this case. as is common with many of the European orders and those inspired by them. So, there are jewelled stars, plainber stars and, I think, a 5th Grade which is probably a medal and not a star at all. Here is a link to an earlier discussion of the topic on this forum: I am no expert on the Iranian orders but I wonder if E.G. Bronwe's award would have been recorded in the London Gazette for 1922. If so, that would tell you which grade he received. And, by the way, even today many awards given out by developing countries in Africa and the Middle east are still made by European or English jewellers, so the fact that the stars were made elsewhere is not surprising. I'm sorry I can't be more help, but good luck with the hunt! I think most of us on the GMIC understand the importance of such family treasures! Peter

Susan & Reg That was me with the kite story. I saw Indian Kites when I lived in West Africa many many years ago and their behaviour there made such tales credible to me. Many years ago, a friend and I founded the Indian Military History Society, which is now run out of the UK, a small group devoted to studying and preserving the hsitory of the british Indian Army and its descendants: the Armies of India and Pakistan. I am a life long student of military history, a retired history teacher and very involved with educational activities around WWI. Just back from a week in Halifax, for example, where 8 of us set up a WWI Casualty Clearing Station - think 'M.A.S.H.' - and interpreted it for visitors to the Tall Ships event there. Reg, your father's experience mirrors that of the Indian troops in France in 1914-15, who were told they couldn't get flour for chappatis and had to make do with army biscuit, at least at first. 'Atta' was in short supply. In both wars, the majority of the Indian troops were recruited from what the British refered to as the 'martial races' - northern Indians, many from what is now Pakistan, so rice was not part of their daily diet. Susan, I'm in Alliston, Ontario, just north of Toronto. I'm not a WWII specialist, but the Indian Army AND research are both areas I have considrable experience in, so I'd be happy to help, if I can, with the research. If you have specific questions, please let me know.

That is an odd one. Can't think of or find any unit whose initials are even close. Can you give us the full naming, please? The only thing that I can think of, and it's a wild guess is something like 'S... Security Detail', as I believe that the IA uses both paramilitary police and civilian security firms to guard some of their establishments. A puzzle. Peter

Joel Ok, then! Now it's an 'M ?' cipher. To quote an old joke, I am better informed but none the wiser. No clue. Such a lovely piece, though, that were it mine I'd keep it just for the aesthetic value even if none of the learned gents here or elsewhere can offer a postivie ID.

He does not appear to be listed with the Commonwealth War Graves Commission, so presumably he survived the War.

The Indian Kite, a raptor native to the Indian sub-continet, was invariably referred to as a 'shite-hawk' by the Tommies. They are somewhat predatory but also scavenge - a bit like many gulls - and there are stories of them literally taking food off the plates of incautious soldiers being fed in the field.

The tanker masks are now being made by several companies - an educational group I work with just bought one for our displays. That might explain the variety, as I don't think most of the repros are being made as exact copies, either deliberately different to distinguish them from the originals or because the makers, and buyers like us, just don't care enouygh to get them exact. I have now expertise on telling good from bad but would guess that most offered for sale are NOT original.

Well spotted, Owain!

The hooks suggest a shoulder belt plate, rather than a waist belt, but that would seem to have the cipher - 'E L'? - turned on its side. I wonder if it is for a band/piper. Also, I would have expected a belt plate to be stamped or moulded - late 18th/early 19th century - rather than having the cipher added as this one is, which strikes me as Victorian. But I may be totally out to lunch! Very curious but clearly quality work.

Rohan What a shame! Many, perhaps most of the veterans, particularly those who saw a .ot of action, were very close-mouthed about their experiences. The trauma often lasted years and most were not eager to talk about it. I am assuming that your father's medlas were named,as was practice in the Indian Army, so perhaps there is some slight chance of your recovering them at some point. Welcome to the GMIC! Peter

Nice, especially the Kashmir Rifles!

It is a fairly crude copy of a real VC. A number of companies have made copies of varying quality overb the lastr several decades but this is not one of the better ones. In addition, someone has added the wrong ribbon - I think - with a French style pin for ataching it to a tunic. Very odd. The real ribbon is a deeper purple/red than this red ribbon, unless this is just a very off colour photo.