peter monahan

I'd assume you've used a magnet to check the iron content, not just going by weight. It is indeed an oddity! And worth keeping as such, I think, besides providing an oppurtunity for some research and/or a display of erudition by the boffins on this site!

I notice that the Governor [?] is also wearing a DSO and what looks like a Croix de Guerre with his Great War trio of medlas, but that won't narrow the ID down very much. The gent to his left has a Victorian campaign medla on - India Medal 1896 at a guess - and the Governor's aide - the one with the fancy aiguelette also wear a WWI trio. Yes, East or West Africa is first choice.

Yes, its been messed with but the garment looks - from the few shots available - as if it could be original.

Couple the French fascination with l'Empereur and high end nineteenth century craftsmanship with the collectors' desire to own pieces of history and you ave the potential for many many costly misattributions. The friend I mentioned, the professional costumer, who supplies museums world wide, not infrequently finds examples of his work advertised for sale as 'original' despite numbers of clues to the contrary for any discerning buyer. People will believe what they want to believe and the unscrupulous or romantic and ignorant sellers are more than happy to feed those dreams!

I wish I read Portugese!

Actually, Mike, the examples I'm thinking of - mostly Crimean and Mutiny groups, are all individual clasps/brooches. In fact, I have a couple: ribbon feed through a buckle which has two loops on the back, so it still has to be stitched to the garment but is easy to add or remove without messing with the ribbon. Then one sees the ribbons [with the medals on] sewn directly to the uniforms - I'm thinking this became common in the 1870s-80s, but that's just an impression, and finally the 'bar', either pinned through the tunic or through loops on the tuic, which we're familiar with today. Medals, as opposed to orders and awards, only became really common for most soldiers and sailors after the issue of the MGS and NGS in the 1840s and the campaign medals of the 1850s on, so attachment was a relatively new puzzle to solve in the period this picture repersents

It all depended who was watching, and, sadly, soemtimes who the person performing the act was. But, as Tony suggests, such acts of 'qiet heroism' probably happened daily and most were never formally acknowledged. One good reason for forums like this one. Thanks for posting this, Rob.

Great groups, indeed, Rob. Thanks very much for sharing them. I was a bit surprised to see the full names and addreses of the men who assisted Greay. I hope he memorized those and didn't write them down! If he's been captured with the names on his person the consequences would have been dire for the guides.

"THE COLLAR: Knight Grand Cross, The Most Illustrious Order of Queen Salote Tupou III: The Collar (note, the King has altered... " It's good to be King!

This illustrates the oft stated problem of 'long distance authentication', which is two fold: no photo is a substitute for having the item in one's hand and, perhaps more importantly, 'calling it' can best be done after one has handled many many like it, real or fake. I still have a strong interest in the badegs of the Imperial [dirty word!] Indian Army but, as I live in North America, almost all I see are 'one off's and in many many cases I would be very reluctant to put out much money, not because i think them fake but because I simply can't tell. That said, of course, it's also very easy for me to offer opininons on forums like this one as it costs me nothing to do so! Pontification over!

Perhaps an unissued example, liberated from stores, would explain the lack of identifying numeral as well - hasn't been applied yet. That hadn't occurred to me but makes a certain amount of sense. Good thought, Michael!

Well, if the repros are themselves 100 years old, that gives them an interest and value that the c**p being put together in 'the East' and sold as real doesn't have. In the case of my friend, however, part of his task is/was to convince the owner of the uniform that it was not un fact 200 years old, as I believe it was purchased as such. That said, yes, well made repros. have a place in collections. I'll certainly never spend the money, for example, to a genuine light company officer's sabre to go with the British uniform I wear at re-enactments and, when I hang up my spurs I assume that one of my kid's will keep the sword as a souvenir of my starnge hobby, so it too will be 'collectible' in the broad sense. I also hope, given what I paid for it, that my tunic doesn't wind up in a rag bag or at the local Good Will store.

I can see that, but the bars were quite common on early Victorian medals, as it wasn't yet the custom to sew them to the uniform.

My only contribution to the theread is to agree that 19th century repros. are common. A friend, a professional uniform maker was, last time I saw him, refurbishing an officer's dress uniform which the owner believed original but which my friend thinks is a good quality repro., based on the fact that bits of it are machine sewn. That, of course means that at the very least it has been re-worked and, given the lasting popularity of l'Empereur it would be amazing if people hadn't done copies of his troops' dress over the last 200 years!

I agree with Mike about the medals, though no idea on the middle one, and the uniform may very well be diplomatic or perhaps a county Lieutenant Governor's.

Odd, I didn't get the impression that anyone in Antwerp was feeling oppressed, though the propriater of a book shop [Flemish] got quite shirty with me when I enquired - In French, I'm afraid - if she had any books in English or French. I was looking for a bird guide and didn't think one in Flemish would help me much!

Kris - My bad! I know perfectly well that Antwerp is in Belgium - I was there in June this year. Interesting, too, that Google Translate will accept Flemish as 'Dutch' and give one a usable translation.

I can't say I like the 'combined' order nearly as well as the pieces posted earlier, but that is just me. Interesting, as you say, that the Portugese influence is still strong post independence.

The size is certainly appropriate for a helmet plate but the construction is not. They were typically stamped out, so the reverse of the badge showed the design too, whereas this looks cast and, I suspect, very heavy for something worn on the head. The Wikipedia article on the Singapore volunteers shows what it identifies as a 'crest' for the unit and I suspect this is similar: meant to go on a plaque or wall rather than on a soldier's kit. Possibly even an auto badge. Below is an example of a cap badge, 'borrowed' from the British badge Forum and you can see the difference in construction. You might also consider consulting the author of a blof on the SVC, found here: http://sgvolunteerscorps.blogspot.co.uk

The other possibility - I can't get a good enough look at the entry on my computer to read it clearly - is that the reference is to the authorizing order, in which case the numbers may be either the date the clasps were authorized for issue, the date all clasps to WWII stars were authorized or not even a date at all but a reference number. Just a thought.

The document is a Dutch Marriage Certificate from the Municipality of Berchem, part of southern Antwerp, for the marriage of Edwards Nicholas Deeds and a Bertha Wauters, presumably a Dutch girl, so Driver Needs brought home a war bride after his soldiering in Africa, Italy and the Netherlands. Well done, that man! Sadly, WWII British medals were not named. Nor were those issued to Canadians or Aussies, I think, but South Africa and the Indian Army went the extra furlong and had them named.

Norstrom - I just noticed the two 'dagger' threads now. When I was more involved in buying and selling militaria, back in the 1970s and '80s, these daggers were already being copied. That means that the fakers have had 40 ears to get the copies right, so unless you have a lot of really trustworthy and expert advice, I'd stay away from these entirely. All to easy to get your fingers and pocketbokk badly burned! Peter

The trouble with brass is that you ave to polish it! I've just reclaimed a 'seaman's chest' - a large mahogany chest with two drawers, meant for storing clothes. Not really for a seaman, of course, because it's too large and there is no provision for keeping the drawers from sliding open in rough weather, but the style is very nautical. The 'down side' are the two large brass bands around it, which would I'm sure look fabulous for a week or two after I polished them, beofre returning to their present dull and discolored state. If I had a maid, of course, that would be a different story, but every time I suggest that my wife put on the lovely little 'French maid' outfit I bought her, she hits me!

Lovely photos, Karhu. These are very attractive looking orders too which, sadly, is not always the case with the ODM of the newer nations, where national and political symbolism often seems to over rule heraldic and aesthetic factors. Thank you for sharing them. The Diploma attached also gives a good idea of the sort of thing for which the Distiguished Service medal is awarde so, again, thank you for sharing that.