peter monahan

I think Brian has done an excellent job - 'diplomatic' as opposed to 'political' - of conveying his uneasiness with this piece. I'm no expert but my 'gut feeling' is 'No!' No one even felt the need to point out that the Young Pretender's lads probably had better things to do than be decorating drums! Even as "the Duke of Atholl's" it doesn't pass the smell test for me either. I tend to Jock's assessment - less diplomatic but to the same end!

Two factors come to mind, Dan. One, the Light Bobs wanted to be as distinct as possible from the 'straight legs' / 'grunts' / 'PBI'. Two, the Lights coveted, even if they rarely wore, rifle green. The Canadian Glengarry Light Infantry wore green and I bel;ieve a number of the British Victorian LI volunteer units did as well. So, they likely made could make the 'historic tradition' argument, one which often carries substantial weight even in these penny-pinching times. My two cents worth. Peter

I suspect 'malingering', even in a war zone, was capable of multiple interpretations. Maiming oneself - the infamous shot through the foot - to avoid combat would be at the 'high' end of the scale and might in fact become a capital offence. Feigning a belly ache to avoid work detail, OTOH, would be less serious, though probably enough to cost a fortnight's pay 'pour decourager les autres'. And it can't have been uncommon, though probably dealt with by a cuff round the lug hole in many cases and not through official channels.

I would tend to agree with Mervyn's guess that the original clasp was mislaid between the issue date and when the group was mounted. A small piece of metal, perhaps in an otherwise empty envelope or, worse, floating loose in a box or drawer would be very easy to lose over a number of years. if that's what happened then either your uncle or Spink's may have provided the tailor's copy to get the group finished for the dinner. A not uncommon occurrence with bars, rosettes and various other small 'devices' meant to go on medal ribbons or uniforms. Yes, we would love to see photos of the medals and of your uncle if you are inclined to share! Peter

Joine up under age the first time and got caught by the family, pressured into resigning and re-upped when he was able to? Interesting puzzle!

Don Didn't realize you spoke from personal experience. I stand corrected! And I was forgetting the behind the lines part of the equation, which would obviously influence one's potential options. Not a duty I'd ever consider signing up for, I don't think! Happy New Year! Peter

Ouch! That's cold. I'm not sure I believe it either, though the US has been accused of equally cynical tactics in all sorts of areas. That sort of thing tends to be counter productive, IMHO, because word inevitably gets out among the troops, which tends to do bad things for morale!

Not a lot of overhead invested in decorating the shop, but lovely work! I'm interested [as a part time cobbler] in the forward slant in the leg of the top boots and wonder whether it is deliberate. I'm guessing it would give an odd wrinkle around the ankle when worn. OTOH, making good Wellington boots is the true test of a cordwainer, so perhaps these are apprentice work or a rush job. Thanks for sharing, Chris. Peter

Ulsterman - the repro. tins I've only seen on-line, as most of the sellers in the UK wouldn't ship to Canada but as far as one can tell from multiple shots on ebay they look much like the originals. My repro. contents look just like Paul's [originals?].

Lovely! I drool in envy! Yes, I asked rhetorically on another forum a while back 'is it odd to open a random box in your garage and find a chapeau bras and a trench knife?" the joys of collecting. And forgetfulness!

Les, The descendants of the men killed in Siberia in 1919 might argue your "no bullets, artillery..." but in general your point is valid: the deaths didn't stop at an arbitrary time on an arbitrary day.

Yes, this is a fascinating collection. Many of which I covet for my own budding WWI collection! Thanks, Ralph, for taking the time.

Thank you, sir, for the unsolicited testimonial! BTW, my youngest will be arriving in SA at the end of January, for at least one term at the Uni in Cape Town. I'm thankful that she has decided to live in student housing, though off campus, and am scheming to get her a can of 'bear spray' to take with her. It is sold in stores here in Canada for hikers. The rest of the world knows it as 'Mace' and, of course, one is totally forbidden from using it on potential assailants! Or is there an SA equivalent?

I was able to get an original tin from out West [Canada] and two sets of replica contents: a packet each of tobacco and cigarettes, a Christmas Card frpm Princess Mary, a message from HRH King George and photos of he, his wife and Princess Mary. Bought them from an organization in the UK associated with one of the veterans' groups. A very nice packet for my 'Christmas in the Trenches' event two weeks ago.

Ulsterman - found it in a quick search for 'November 11, 1918 deaths', free at a BBC web site. Paul - The Commonwealth War Graves Commission counted anybody who died up to 1922 as a war casualty. Many many did, from disease and the effects of wounds or gas. Plus, no doubt, some suicides though those are less likely to have been so designated.

Clearly the same considerations apply to the NZSAS as to its British counterpart: for operational security reasons, members are never named and, it least in the British case, continue to be carried on the rolls of their parent unit, so that in fact a gazetted award might list the honouree as a member of 'the Fore and Fit...Foot' and not the SAS. Frustrating! Hence the reference to 'Trooper J' on the site you list.

But, yes, this will be a blow to the regulars in the newly re-named, re-uniformed Royal Canadian Navy. And it comes on top of the decision several years ago to make the daily toasts politically correct! No more 'wives and sweethearts'.

Was it the sodomy or the lash that attracted you, Frank? Or am I misunderstanding again? Sorry, Human not my first language is.

I did wonder if it was complete but honestly didn't have the time to forage through Chancery Office papers to check. I'm glad it is of some use.

Regency period brigadier generals wore similar feathers but also wore the hat cross ways, not fore and aft and looked, IMHO, quite silly! I made a comment on a friend's hat anent 'maribou' and was informed frostily that it was ostrich and that 'strippers wear maribou.' Mind, he only wore the hat one season and reverted to another pattern, so I suspect he wasn't enthralled with the look either. I'd have to agree however, that the coats are not naval and may well be made up. The 'L' lacing is definitely odd and not a pattern I've seen on British uniforms before. The collar and frogging on the frock coat are not right for any period I can think of - not that that proves much - but the whole thing has a theatrical look to me. Or possibly something exotic and foreign.

Nothing ostentatious about that! I mean, it doesn't have a three foot purple plumes or light up buttons. Just Typically British subdued elegance. And, of course, the absolute certainty that you'll never be mistaken for a member of a 'lesser regiment' [ie: any other regiment on the Army List]. Seriously though, I quite like the Grey's cap. The other is a wee touch loud for my plebeian tastes.

I found this quote in a BBC News Magazine article on the last soldiers to die: "Augustin Trebuchon's grave - along with all those French soldiers killed on 11 November 1918 - is marked 10/11/18. It is said that after the war France was so ashamed that men would die on the final day that they had all the graves backdated." I think that the phrase 'it is said' is of significance. One US unit lost 365 men on Nov. 11 and the average daily death toll for that period on the Western Front was over 2,000 men per day. In fact, Patton was questioned after the war about that fact, given that the Germans had expressed an interest in a ceasefire to be effective as early as Nov. 8th! I've now looked at about 15 quickly located posts on this topic and though a good number repeat the story about the French deaths, including a Canadian one which offers a long rational which boils down to 'bureaucracy', none cites any source and none, as far as I can tell, is more than a few months or years old. I'm tending more and more to believe that this is part of the growing mythology of the war engendered by the interest in the centenary. Peter

. From Wikipedia: "To the memory of 256265 Private George Lawrence Price, 28th North West Battalion, 6th Canadian Infantry Brigade, 2nd Canadian Division, killed in action near this spot at 10.58 hours, November 11th, 1918, the last Canadian soldier to die on the Western Front in the First World War. Erected by his comrades, November 11th, 1968... In 1991, the town of Ville-sur-Haine erected a new footbridge across the adjacent Canal du Centre... A plebiscite was held and on 11 November of that year the bridge was officially named the George Price Footbridge (French: Passerelle George Price) Price is popularly believed to be the last British Imperial killed in the war, shot by a German sniper as he advanced through a row of houses in the village in pursuit of German troops. Henri Gunther, apparently the last Frenchman killed [10:59 am], allegedly charged a group of Germans who first fired warning shots then, when he refused to halt, shot him. I too would be interested in evidence of soldiers killed after the cessation of hostilities. Very probably there were some, though I am quite skeptical of the 'altered dates' story. Such accidents are and were commonplace in war and would hardly need to be 'covered up' I don't think.

Yikes! Not my idea of a good time either.

Oilers are pretty common. I picked one up for $20.00 Cdn a while back, so you should do better than that down there. Also got an un-issued for stock for my 1912 SMLE, which made the rest of the woodwork look pretty shabby. And, because of Asian Long Horn Beetle or some such, getting a 102 year old piece of wood into Canada was only slightly easier than importing AK47s or a pound of cocaine!