J Temple-West

I must say that I’m not a big fan of FLL’s RO/AG or Observer badges, but this example is certainly helping me change my mind. An unusual combination of materials + wonderful condition makes this badge quite special. Good find, Karsten.

The cut-out WB continued into the TR era.

Hi Tom I've come across a few of there over the years and have never liked them. The raised maker mark version (due to a replacement of the reverse die) appears on both late production buntmetal into early zinc production pieces. The one and only example of an this "800" stamped Ob's badge I've had in hand turned out to be a casting of a badge from this timeframe, having this hinge/catch style. Even if the eagle, after assay, turned out to be "fine silver" I wouldn't be putting any pennies on the table for it.

Georgios I've moved this thread over to the Imperial section. I'm sure that chaps over there will have an idea or two. A commemorative squadron pin perhaps?

Thanks for the new pictures, Martin. I have been comparing your badge to my example and the obverse matches. The problem I have is the reverse. Rivets, maker mark and to a certain extent the hinge do not match known originals! There are times, with certain non-textbook badges when photos are just not enough and the collector has to resort to the technical side of the badge. Without the benefit of an in-hand inspection of the piece, I can only suggest that the way forward is to take accurate measurements and weight which, through the process of elimination, should hopefully give us a better idea of its originality. I will say; if this badge is a copy....it is the best I’ve ever seen.

Hi Martin Looks like a good example, but would like to see a close-up of the catch and maker mark as the “L” seems very low in the shot supplied.

The messy soldering is a characteristic of "PM" zincers. A lot of these badges will be found with flathead hinge pins, but seeing that this one looks to be domed.....well worth the check. A pretty poor photo of another flat-head hinge pin on a PM Obs.

And the later Air Gunner/Flight Engineer's Badge (in zinc) with the same hinge/catch setup.

An early version in nickel silver.

Yes please, Tim

You've a good eye, Bob. The full maker mark "P.Meybauer, Berlin" on this zinc piece shows that it was most likely produced quite early-on during the change over from tombak to zinc as most zinc pieces by this maker show only the maker's initials, "PM" Nice find!

A classic setup for a B&NL zinc badge, good condition. Nice example, Bob.

Sorry Mervyn...A pretty poor fake. When compared with an original example by Deumer, all becomes clear.

Now that is a very nice set, Bob. Quite a few well known members of the Luftwaffe by the name of Paul Schmidt, but none that I can find in the limited listings I have of the Fallschirmjäger or DK/RK holders. Going on the bar, however, it would seem that Herr Schmidt was a member of the early “Flieger Division.7" which later became 1. Fallschirmjägerdivision. Did this bar come from a split group, seeing that your friend has the name of the recipient ….If so, see if he still has any paperwork on the man.

Hi Tom... I agree with you, one of the very bad fakes out there. Regarding the production of Elektron Air Crew badges, as stated and thus far only an interesting indicator to the existence of such a badge. http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=19455

There are indicators that versions of the “Air Crew Badge” (unmarked) were produced by firms other than Juncker in the substitute alloy for aluminium known as Elektron. Even if this be true, I must agree with Harrier regarding the badge shown. Impossible to tell, one way…. Anyway… let’s have a look at a well known picture of the “Air Crew Badge” in wear.

Hi Leon I?ve seen quite a few of these unofficial, unit specific medals over the years, but never with a certificate (urkunde) explaining what they were awarded for. I see no reason to doubt them as there are other medals out there for other units which are accepted as right having been awarded for annual sports events, unit competitions etc. Seeing that there is a year of issue on this one, I can only conclude that this is one of those.

One of my favourite clasp types....and in very nice condition. :love:

Well, well!! Very nicely done, Werner. I bet Jos will be very interested in seeing these.

Hi Ron Well, your friend is correct on both counts. It is a Pilot?s badge (always unmarked) by Friedrich Linden. L?denscheid (F L L) and this type of hinge has been copied by fakers, as has most other types of ?well, everything! Not particularly good pictures, but going on those supplied?it looks to be an original. That having been said, and looking hard at this piece, I think there has been a little repair work going on... certainly to the rivets and possibly to the catch. This of course should be taken into account when considering the purchase. Badges by this maker are not hard to find, so if the asking price is on par with examples that are without repairs, look elsewhere. On the other hand; If you don't mind the repairs, and the price is good.....

This second one is usually found in zinc. This is the only example I've ever seen in nickel silver.

Here are a couple of early examples, Jan. Both in nickel silver, makers unknown. This first type can be found...but the price nowadays!!! Through the roof!

Believe me, we've all been there. And the person who tells you that they havn't......... Anyway, two good things have come out of the experience, shaneos3. You have two nice new shiny fishing lures (good for your part of the world) and you've found the GMIC which should hopefully dramatically cut down the odds of the same thing happening again. onward and upwards.

How long have you had them? Contact the person/dealer who sold them to you and see if they can be returned for a refund...It's worth the effort!

I think that our brother Francois is having a little fun with us! Both badges are by Juncker, as well he knows. As for this group having been owned by a nazi?.seeing that the pilot was a member of the ?Legion Condor? and involved in the ?Flower Wars? he would have had to have been an early party member, that?s for sure. What?s the story behind the group, F? Who, what?where? BTW (acronym for By The Way) Do you realize the Acronym for ?TMC? is ?Too Much Crack?