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Everything posted by Destruction
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Please help to read the name
Destruction replied to Destruction's topic in Deutsche Kaiserreich: Man spricht Denglish
A big big thanx, Dave! Kaiser it is, I made a mistake. Thank you again! -
Hi Gents, Is it possible to tell precisely when this order was made? Spanish production as I understand, marked with star for silver content and unreadable maker mark. Best! Serg
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P.S. Refreshed my memory by one of the sources and I stand corrected. Only the 1st cross (which you call cross for privates) was established in 2 classes (all gilded/silvered with gilded shields). The other two had just one class. All crosses were established 16.11.1919
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Hey Johan, As I said, it's a minefield, so I will not insist by now. As you see we're arguing using phrases like "I read this somewhere" and " I was told", because none has any serious arguments. To provide more info I need to buy and check some books on a subject, will get back if I'll have more info. But to be honest, all these enameled versions around look unused and brand new IMO. And the Merit cross (with wreath) which by your info was awarded only twice, do exist in 4 examples, at least I've seen 4 of them thus far. Best! Serg
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Hi Johan, These crosses are the minefield, to be honest. First of all, I've read about such types: 1. Cross for privates, 1st and 2nd class 2. Cross for officers, 1st and 2nd class 3. Cross for bravery/merit, also in two classes (with swords). Ciphers of ppl awarded differs from source to source, something like 20 ppl / 1st class of cross for privates and around 100 with the 2nd. As for officers/bravery crosses, only few of them were ever given. As far as I'm concerned, no one has ever shown neither 1st class of any type nor the 2nd class for bravery. What disturbs me when looking at your pictures...following the description these crosses were NOT enameled. 1st class badges for privates were gilded and the 2nd class badges were silvered with gilded shield, while other two types were gilded with silvered wreaths. Jani Tiainen once showed this cross which looks believable. Whoever made enameled specimens, when and why--I have no idea. One more from the internet. Translation: Bravery Cross of the Ingrian White Wall
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Thank you all so much for your opinions! To make our life easier I made bigger scan. And honestly said, I tend to agree with Andreas, I see W not M. Look a the 3rd vertical bar, or how it's called, it's shorter in lower part comparing to other two, as it is shortened in all W letters in all gothic scripts I've ever seen. You can't find it in M letters.
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Weimar republic items
Destruction replied to graham's topic in Germany: Weimar Republic & Deutsche Freikorps
Wow, Uwe, very nice example of Heinrich Timm made clasps! These are not so often met comparing to others, especially in such a configuration and quantities. Thanx for showing. -
Vilppularisti/Vilppula cross
Destruction replied to Destruction's topic in Northern European & Baltic States
Terve Tuomas, Thank you soooo much! Kiitos! -
Hi Gents, A quick question. I know the cross was established in 1938 and awarded to those who took part in Battle of Vilppula in 1918. I found 4 different types of this cross, can anyone tell me which of them were officially awarded and which are private purchase items? Or at least what was the earlier type of the cross from these four? Any info is welcome! 1. Type one, made of bronze. Often met on old medal bars, I believe I've seen an example of this type among Mannerheim medals. 2. Type 2, made of iron. 3. Type 3, bronze again 4. And a final one, made of iron.
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deutsche schutzdivision badge
Destruction replied to Eric Stahlhut's topic in Germany: Weimar Republic & Deutsche Freikorps
Look, first of all the plakette is dated 1919-1920 (!), while in document it's clearly stated: december 1919. Deutsche Schutzdivision was formed in January 1919 in Zossen from 31. Infanterie-Division and already in June 19 became Reichswehr-Brigade 25. Exactly as in document (31.Division/Schutzdivision/Reichswehr-Brigade 25), and nothing to do with Landesschützenkorps which mentioned on plakette ( used to form Reichswehr-Brigade 4 ). I can not exclude that plakette was awarded to members of Deutsche Schutzdivision, but I really doubt this document belongs to it. What do you think? One more thing. For example, Dr. Klietmann in his article calls Erinnerungszeichen der Deutschen Legion as "plakette" as well. May I ask our German friends here if this word can be used for badges ? -
deutsche schutzdivision badge
Destruction replied to Eric Stahlhut's topic in Germany: Weimar Republic & Deutsche Freikorps
Ehhh Brian, what I'm trying to tell is that this badge is OLD. It's absolutely impossible that is was made 10-20 years ago, ask any 3rd Reich collectors how much time needed for zinc to dissolve silvering like this. Can you show me more badges like this on sale? Made of zinc and with very same details? Also, zinc is the last material I'd use for any kind of copies. It's very brittle and has very narrow temperature range for die-struck. Germans used it for production just because it was cheap and available. If this badge is real, in this version it definitely was not worn as collar. It should be a commemorative badge and worn as such on a breast. And... it's Freikorps and has no connection with how long you're collecting, sorry. There are lots of undiscovered things in this area, I think you will agree. Did you ever seen Kreuzberg cross f.e, before it appeared last year? Even VerKuilen Ager never seen it as he told me. So yes, let's wait for some additional facts/pictures/groups to make it evident or unreal, but thus far it has a good chances IMO. After studying this in deep, looks like I can tell which badge this document represents -
deutsche schutzdivision badge
Destruction replied to Eric Stahlhut's topic in Germany: Weimar Republic & Deutsche Freikorps
Hey Brian, Can you explain why do you think it's fake? From production point of view? I mean, the badge is die stamped from zinc, this means it was produced in quantities. If it's fake, where are all other badges? We do not see them on sale , why? Also, can you show any zinc based fake with finish faded like this? If you will put it into aggressive environment to make it quick, you will get it corroded. Finish like this can only be made by aging when zinc is "eating" the finish. Eric, I do not want to make fakers life easier, will check measurements and contact you via PM. -
deutsche schutzdivision badge
Destruction replied to Eric Stahlhut's topic in Germany: Weimar Republic & Deutsche Freikorps
Well, zinc it is, with faded silver finish, as I supposed. I'm not much into production but as far as I'm concerned it's impossible to made cast zinc counterpart badge, isn't it? Also this faded finish, eaten by base metal, as we see on WW2 items... So I believe this badge is original, probably produced/ordered at the same run when they did these plakette. No idea if document belongs to badge or plakette though, as I said previously. -
deutsche schutzdivision badge
Destruction replied to Eric Stahlhut's topic in Germany: Weimar Republic & Deutsche Freikorps
Yup! Irregardless of which badge it represents.