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Belgium - Commemorative Medal of the War 1914-1918

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:shame: Hendrik was probably in a hurry or wasn't awake that morning :D

Hello Olivier and Jef,

It is true that I am a late riser and so possibly wasn't fully awake at the time ! :P

The first victory medal in picture two is correct! The black enamaled bar ...

Ahem, "victory medal" ??? I don't think so :rolleyes:

Maybe I need a new computer screen as I thought it was a tarnished silver Service Star bar. I've now downloaded the picture and fiddled a bit with it and believe Olivier may well be correct although I'm still unsure about it being black enamel.

Jef : you have the medal and its bar, is it black enamel ? If so, I stand corrected and happy to concur with Olivier's identification ! :unsure:

Cheers,

Hendrik

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Nice Picture Oli4,

Am I correct to see that she wears the knight of the Crown

Knight of Leopold II

Commemorative medal WWI

Victory medal WWI

Croix d'Guerre WWI

Could anyone explain to me why she wears also the knight of the crown??

I thought that those who deceased were only awarded the knight of Leopold II with palm????

So the mother should be wearing the Leopold II with black bar!!!

As someone who had deceased wouldn't stay in the running for more awards, the award of knight of the order of the crown seems quite odd to me!!!

Kind regards,

Jacky

Indeed a nice picture and yes, Jacky, you are correct in your identification ...

Belgian chivalry orders awarded for an act of merit or valour in wartime carry a palm device on their ribbons. However, this device is removed and a black enameled bar is put on the ribbon when the closest relative is wearing them in honour of the fallen soldier.

From this I would conclude that both orders in Olivier's picture were originally awarded with the wartime palm. Quite likely the man had already received the lower Leopold II order and posthumously was awarded the Crown order ...

As an aside, theoretically the woman should also be wearing black bars on the Commemorative and Victory medals.

Cheers,

Hendrik

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Thanks hendrik!!!

And also thanks Oli4, do you have more pictures of Belgian soldiers wearing their cherished medals??

Mothers are fine too :)

Kind regards,

Jacky

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Hello Jef,

Sorry to be a spoilsport but ...

Picture 1 :

- 1st medal : that is a bar for the Service Star (Congo colony) and the wound cross is of the WW2 type as used on the WW2 Commemorative Medal etc.

- 3rd medal : do I spot 2 gold bars there ? Maximum is 1 gold and 3 silver ones ...

- 4th medal : those are miniature bars for the WW2 POW medal ...

Picture 2 :

- 1st medal : another Service Star bar I'm afraid.

Cheers,

Hendrik

Hello Hendrik,

Still have a question about those would-be POW miniature bars in the 4th medal. In the attachement you see on the left similar bars as on the 4th medal (the only difference is, the gold one is separate from the 3 silverones). One gold and three silver bars in one piece.

On the right I scanned a service ribbon of the POW medal with five bronze bars. In a book I found every bar means one year of POW.

Literature told me the bars of a Belgian WWII POW medal must be bronze. The tiny bars on the left are gilt and silver ( even don't have the same size!) If those left bars are no POW bars, for what medal are they ment?

Second question: a black bar for the POW's, and a silver bar for a front stripe. In many cases the silver bar might be oxidated and looks black. How can you see the difference between a black and an oxidated silver bar.

By the way, I see I haven't answered your question about the 1st medal in the second pic. Sorry. But it's definitly black enamel.

With kind regards, :beer:

Jef

[attachmentid=51136]

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If those left bars are no POW bars, for what medal are they ment?

Hello Jef,

They are meant for a miniature WWI Commemorative Medal.

How can you see the difference between a black and an oxidated silver bar.

The bars are painted black (as opposed to the black enameled posthumous award bar)

But it's definitly black enamel.

Excellent !

Cheers,

Hendrik

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Hello Jef,

They are meant for a miniature WWI Commemorative Medal.

The bars are painted black (as opposed to the black enameled posthumous award bar)

Excellent !

Cheers,

Hendrik

Thank you Hendrik, your information is very helpful.

Jef

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really interesting thread this-

I have 2 questions:

1. Did all the medals have a bar of some sort and

2. isn't the bust on the obverse that of the King?

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really interesting thread this-

I have 2 questions:

1. Did all the medals have a bar of some sort and

2. isn't the bust on the obverse that of the King?

no, not all the decorations have insignias on their ribbons and yes, it's king Albert.

Olivier

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no, not all the decorations have insignias on their ribbons and yes, it's king Albert.

Olivier

Hello Oli4,

I have read it before in the book of Alec Purves, and know I read it again. Is this really King Albert?

My book of Henri Quinot says.....la t?te d'un soldat casqu?... translated is this " a head with a helmet"

In what book did you found this? I'm very curious.

kind regards,

Jef

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Hello Oli4,

I have read it before in the book of Alec Purves, and know I read it again. Is this really King Albert?

My book of Henri Quinot says.....la t?te d'un soldat casqu?... translated is this " a head with a helmet"

In what book did you found this? I'm very curious.

kind regards,

Jef

I didn't got it from a book I guess It's him, becouse he was the king then. He was the "Koning ridder" (king knight) and the soldier has a laurelwreath on his helmet and this is a sign of a winner and Albert was seen by all the winning countries as a great man.

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I have my doubts as well on the helmeted figure being King Albert I :

- the official description of the medal's obverse doesn't mention it to be him but merely a "helmeted soldier" whereas in other medals' descriptions the "head of King Albert I" is specified,

- if it were the king, in military uniform, I would expect his rank insignia to be visible as well

Just my two Eurocents worth,

Hendrik

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I agree with Hendrik

When you take the discriptions of Quinot and Born?

they say "la t?te d'un militaire casqu?, de profil ? gauche, avec haut col et partie d'epaulette. Le casque porte une guirlande de feuilles de laurier."

If we want be sure, we have to look the publication in the "Moniteur Belge" from 21-23/9/1919 ;)

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Oliver, Jeff et al

It's early where I am too - canada - but I've read the first page twice and i can't see any description of what the small STAR was awarded for. Can someone clarify?

Also, just to help my fuzzy morning brain: black bars for a deceased recipient when medals worn by next-of-kin and little stripes for POW time? Is that right? (I thought at first the black bar was described as for POWs).

BTW, I think this is an interesting idea: a single medal with "differencing" as it's known in heraldry. It emphasizes the common service of all the wearers and yet lets one know what each did. Also a classy looking thing! I must admit I'd seen them before and never paid a lot of mind but I'll see them with new respect from now on!

My Canadian 2 cents (0.06 Euro) worth :P

Peter

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1) Crown in gilded silver 6mm large = volonteurs of War

2) Silver ba 2mm high = chevron de front (front bar)

3) Gilded silver bar 2mm high = 5 chevrons de front (front bar)

4) Red Cross of 5mm hight and 1 mm large = Chevron de besseure (wonded bar)

5) Silver star of 3mm diameter = reformd for service after been wonded or siknes got on the front.6)

6) A.R. 3/2/1920 Silver crown 6 mm large hight = intilligence service who got a national order

7) A.R. 17/3/1920 Silver bar whit balck email 4 mm hight = to put on the decorations for the mothers of the

dead soldiers, who so could whaer the decorations of ther sons who died for their country.

8) A.R. 21/2/1921 Bronse ancor 10 mm hight = for the civilian Navy

9) A.R. 2/2/1931 Gilded silver bar 1916 white cross in email whit the letter R 1917 - 5 mm hight = given tot the

belgian expeditionary corps in Russia (Auto canons) See olso this webpage

10) A.R. 31/3/1933 silver lion of 6 mm = intilligence service

11) A.R. 3/11/1950 Gilded silver bar 1916 whit the letter R 1918 - 6 mm hight 38 mm large = for

the belgian expeditionary corps in Russia (Auto canons) in place of the barette 1916 R 1917

12) A.R. 3/11/1950 Two crossed ancors in brons 6mm large = Military Navy

13) A.R. 24/6/1952 bar 2 mm hight black = for each 6 mons of captivity as prissoner of War

:beer:

Edited by g_deploige

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I didn't got it from a book I guess It's him, becouse he was the king then. He was the "Koning ridder" (king knight) and the soldier has a laurelwreath on his helmet and this is a sign of a winner and Albert was seen by all the winning countries as a great man.

Hello Oli4,

Thank you for answering , but I'm afraid I have to agree with Hendrik and Guy. It would be very logical if the bust of King Albert was on that medal. You are quite right, our king was respected by all our allies. I checked once more my Quinot book and the determinations of the King Albert medal, Political prisoners medal 14/18 .... Every time the author mentioned the pic of King Albert , but he didn't in the determination of the Commemorative medal 14/18.

With kind regards,

jef

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Bringing up the dead :speechless1: Well, an old thread that is...

Thought I would add another one recently acquired. Have two, this one has the front bars for 3 1/2 years service.

Tim

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Here is my first piece... Médaille Commémorative de la Guerre 1914–1918 / Oorlogsherinnerinsmedaille 1914–1918

Volunteer Crown, 1 black POW bar (top) 1 silver Front bar (bottom)

I also have this little metal "wire" in the colors of the medal's ribbon; it's about 18mm long and 2mm wide. It came with a similar "wire" in the Victory Medal colors, along with a Belgian Victory Medal (posted in the Victory Medal forum).

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Nice collecion GM1, I especially like the two with the russian bars (they are quite rare).

But it seems to me that the one in the third one on the second row is not correct. It looks like it has 4 bars (silver with black enamel) that would be put on a medal when the recipiant was killed and the medal worn by his mother.

Such a bar could be worn on a Commemorative Medal of the War 14-18 but it should be just 1. Here it looks like it are 4 front bars but they aren't.

Just so you know ;)

Vincent

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Have a question, Vincent. Suppose that mother lost four sons . Was she allowed to wear 4 bars on the medal? I checked it in the Andé Borne book but wasn't able to find it.

just wondering.

Kind regards,

Jef

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Never really thought about it ... it could be, but personally I think it is just one to show that your son(s) was(were) awarded the medal. I believe this because othrwise, I think, we should see more medals with two (or more) bars.

Maybe we can find the correct anwser if someone can get his hands on the State Gazette of Belgium from 19 march 1920 and 21 may 1920.

Vincent

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