Soviet Order For Personal Courage - DOCUMENTED

[Bob]

Got this one offered for sale - not that often that such a document is seen of course.

[Bob]

more

[Bob]

and the booklet

[Ed_Haynes]

1- I'd really like to hear from The Experts on this one.

2- Have these, so far, eluded research? If documented, I'd think there'd be some hope with the newspapers?

[Mossy]

I recieved the same email, 'world of medals' wasn't it? I'd be more than wary.

Sam.

[order_of_victory]

Yep I got the same email

The thing that got me was on the fake docs thread there is a fake a doc for this medal number

Order of Victory

[Bob]

Yep I got the same email

The thing that got me was on the fake docs thread there is a fake a doc for this medal number

Order of Victory

That appears to settle it then - although interesting to know in what way it is fake... and is also the award itself fake?

[NavyFCO]

When I last lived in Russia in 1996, there were two things I wouldn't buy: Orders of Courage and Otlichnik badges, simply because I couldn't positively tell the fakes from the real ones because even then (10 years ago) the fakes were so good of both of them. So unfortunately, I cannot help with why this one is (or is not) fake.

However, I will add in my two cents to say that I've been offered so many blank, unissued order books of the several newer variations that I would tend to look at any single award with order book that was purportedly issued in the late 80s or early 90s as suspect until it could be proven otherwise.

Dave

Edited September 11, 2006 by NavyFCO

[Dolf]

I recieved the same email, 'world of medals' wasn't it? I'd be more than wary.

Sam.

Right, also got the same, from "World of Medals". But who the heck is this "WoM"?!... And how did he get everybody's email addresses?!... A member here? A guest-spy?!...

It strongly smells like another scam

Dolf

[NavyFCO]

Right, also got the same, from "World of Medals". But who the heck is this "WoM"?!... And how did he get everybody's email addresses?!... A member here? A guest-spy?!...

It strongly smells like another scam

Dolf

Interestingly, I didn't get anything from him, either being part of this forum, part of the SAF or having my own website of Soviet awards. Rather interesting.

Dave

[Alfred]

I received also no mail.

But I didn?t like the Order for Personal Courage. Compare the two rings. On the right is a genuine one.

regards

Andreas

[Mondvor]

Both order and document are sloppy fakes.

[Ed_Haynes]

Yes, as I expected. Good to know my novice "gut feeling" is confirmed.

Have legitimate documented sets surfaced? And can these be researched?

[Mondvor]

Yes, as I expected. Good to know my novice "gut feeling" is confirmed.

Have legitimate documented sets surfaced? And can these be researched?

Ed, I have images of several original documents for Personal Courage. If somebody is interested I can post some of them later at the day (after I get home).

[order_of_victory]

As per the email I just checked and mine came to a different email addressthan I use for the forum

Order of Victory

[Riley1965]

The "World of Medals" is run by a man in Lithuania named Bronius. He just e-mailed me regarding Soviet Achievement medals. I was going to but the whole lot...Now I won't Thanks for the heads-up on this guy. I have bought some Opposition Communist Party medals from him.

Doc

[Christian Zulus]

Gentlemen,

it is very easy to verify, that the orders book, the document, is a fake:

Look at the stamp and the stamped signature - "President of the CCCP - Michail Gorbacev".

Look at the date - may 1989.

As history tells to us, Gorbacev got President of the CCCP in march 1990.

So the forgers took a new orders book from the stock, but made a big mistake with filling in the date ...

My 2 cents to the topic.

Best regards from Vienna, Austria

Christian Zulus

[JimZ]

I stumbled on this topic today. My test for this order is usually simple..... "Red Bible" primarily plus some other pics of reverse of originals. The reverse tells the story! Look at the definition of the profile of the fake versus the original. The edge of the originals are much more defined whereas the documented fake is much smoother around the wreath "curves". (even the small pic Andreas attached already hints at much different profiles!!) - I'd almost go so far to suggest that this particular piece is probably from the same mould as the documented fake... I have seen about a dozen of these "smoother curved" orders on sale and only once have I come across what I believed to be an original. Needless to say, I failed to pull trigger on it! But as mentioned .....its hard to tell the two apart - and quite honestly, if there is an other better fake mould then I am really a sitting duck!

As for the booklet..... verrrrry interesting point raised by Christian about the stamp . I believe Gorby's signature was already on docs dated 1989 docs issued on behalf of the presidium but the stamp would indeed be a presidium stamp as opposed to the president stamps (pls correct me if I am wrong as docs are surely not my forte !!!!). I would have rejected this medal based on its reverse alone yet the document sure adds one heck of a stink to the already smell of burning!

Regards,

Jim

[Christian Zulus]

Dear Jim,

it is also printed in the orders booklet "ukas presidenta CCCR", but there was NO Gorbacev president of the SU in may 1989 . Head of the Supreme Soviet after Tchernenko's death had been Gromyko and always the signature of the secretary of the Supreme Soviet - for decades Georgadse - is on the stamp.

Best regards

Christian

[JimZ]

Well I hit the books on this one in the meantime and yes, whereas there were docs signed by Gorbachev in 1989 these carried the presidium stamp and not the president's stamp like this one. Case in point red Bible pg 395 and pg 396 with Gorby on behalf of presidium (395) and Gorby as president (396). Seems that in the case of the booklet we have at hand in this thread Gorby was already promoted before the or the rest of the world knew it.