Guest Darrell Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Does anyone know anything about these? The so called "Pour le M?rite for Science and Arts".1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Darrell Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Darrell Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Darrell Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph A Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 The loveliest order of them all. I don't have one yet. Thanks for showing.See:http://www.medalnet.net/The_Pour_le_Merite.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biro Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 I'm with Ralph... One of the most beautifully crafted awards ever made... the pictures in Stephen Previteras book are just absolutely breath-taking!For more info see.. http://www.pourlemerite.org/peace/peace.phpMarshall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medalnet Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Hi Darrell,I see that you may have already found the link to my web page.This particular piece is one of the very early ones made by the official designer and jewler J.G.Hossauer in Berlin. He is the one that made the initial tooling for this decoration.The order is still awarded today. Only selected scientists and artsist are members of this very exclusive order.EnjoyAndreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Danner Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 There is some information on the award and a list of notable recipients under "Civil Class" on the Wikipedia entry for the Pour le M?rite. I made a number of revisions recently to that page, mainly in the notable recipients. The main body of the article still needs some work, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Cole Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 I always found it curious that Ernst Ju"nger was never a recipient of the Peace class of the order. He was a popular author in Germany. If Umberto Eco could be awarded a peace class then why not Ju"nger? I don't think there are any recipients of both the Prussian military order and the peace class, unless its someone pre 1918 I am missing.Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley1965 Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Until now I never knew that a Civil version of the PLM existed. It's BEAUTIFUL!!! Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 I have only seen one, with my thesis advisor's father in India. While there were other things he had been awarded, seeing a Bharat Ratna, an Order of Merit (Civil), and a civil PLM all at once somehow made me ignore his other awards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 I don't think there are any recipients of both the Prussian military order and the peace class, unless its someone pre 1918 I am missing.Why am I remembering that Bismark got both?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Danner Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 I always found it curious that Ernst Ju"nger was never a recipient of the Peace class of the order. He was a popular author in Germany. If Umberto Eco could be awarded a peace class then why not Ju"nger? I don't think there are any recipients of both the Prussian military order and the peace class, unless its someone pre 1918 I am missing.DanThere are at least three holders of both:Helmuth von Moltke - military class in 1839, civil class in 1874Otto von Bismarck - military class in 1884, civil class in 1896Hermann von Kuhl - military class in 1916, civil class in 1924The Elder Moltke also had the Oakleaves (1871), the Grand Cross (1879) and the Crown (with diamonds) (1889) of the military class. Generalleutnant von Kuhl also received the Oakleaves in December 1916. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Darrell Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Guys ... good information exchange .... this one is on a well known dealers site for a cool $25k .... substitute a :BIG GULP: here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Danner Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Guys ... good information exchange .... this one is on a well known dealers site for a cool $25k .... substitute a :BIG GULP: here From its founding in 1842 until the end of the Prussian kingdom in 1918, the Order Pour le M?rite for Sciences and Arts was awarded a total of 343 times. During the Weimar era another 30 awards were made. An early piece like this, then, would be extremely rare - far rarer than those Knight's Crosses of the Iron Cross which regularly sell for thousands - and the list of recipients includes some of the most famous names in arts and sciences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 From its founding in 1842 until the end of the Prussian kingdom in 1918, the Order Pour le M?rite for Sciences and Arts was awarded a total of 343 times. During the Weimar era another 30 awards were made. An early piece like this, then, would be extremely rare - far rarer than those Knight's Crosses of the Iron Cross which regularly sell for thousands - and the list of recipients includes some of the most famous names in arts and sciences.And how many awards by the Federal Republic? Do you have that number, Dave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Danner Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 And how many awards by the Federal Republic? Do you have that number, Dave?From 1952 to 2005, there have been 238 awards. Kind of seems like a lot. There are quite a few famous names on that list too, as you can see from the ones I distilled for the Wikipedia entry, but there are also a few rather obscure ones. My favorite is French mathematician Jacques L?on Tits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brian von Etzel Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 Ah, Paris, Texas, the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 Sorry to be a pedant, but the thing is actually called the Pour le Merite for Arts and Science. Here is a picture of my uncle, Professor Dr. Ludwig Finscher, who was awarded the order whilst head of the History of Music department at the University of Heidelberg. He is also a holder of the Grand Cross of the Order of Merit of Germany and is a Chevalier of the French Legion of Honor. He is considered the world's leading expert on the history of the Viennese Baroque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luftmensch Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 I'm confused, Vince. How many planes did this relative shoot down? I hope they all know to leave their insignia to you in their wills. All my relatives left me was a dirty knapsack and a calling card for Madame Jacqueline -- rue Caillaux (English spoken). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Danner Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 Sorry to be a pedant, but the thing is actually called the Pour le Merite for Arts and Science. Here is a picture of my uncle, Professor Dr. Ludwig Finscher, who was awarded the order whilst head of the History of Music department at the University of Heidelberg. He is also a holder of the Grand Cross of the Order of Merit of Germany and is a Chevalier of the French Legion of Honor. He is considered the world's leading expert on the history of the Viennese Baroque.The official name of the order is the Orden Pour le m?rite f?r Wissenschaften und K?nste, or "Order Pour le m?rite for Sciences and Arts." The revised statutes of the order are here: http://www.orden-pourlemerite.de/satzung.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 LOL unfortunately, he's not an ace in the classic sense, although he is an expert on classical music. I believe you have to return the insignia of the order on the death of the holder, or am I wrong on this? I would dearly love this one for my collection, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Danner Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 LOL unfortunately, he's not an ace in the classic sense, although he is an expert on classical music. I believe you have to return the insignia of the order on the death of the holder, or am I wrong on this? I would dearly love this one for my collection, of course.Chapter ? 1(4) of the Statutes: Die Abzeichen sind Eigentum der Bundesrepublik Deutschland. Jedes Mitglied ist verpflichtet, daf?r Sorge zu tragen, da? nach seinem Tode sein Abzeichen unverz?glich dem Bundesministerium des Innern in Bonn zur?ckgegeben wird. "The Badge is property of the Federal Republic of Germany. Every member is obligated to take care that after his death the badge is promptly returned to the Federal Ministry of the Interior in Bonn."I suppose they'll have to revise the statutes again to allow for the move of the Innenministerium back to Berlin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley1965 Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 To me it's so unfair to the family to have to return the PLM upon their loved one's death. they should be able to keep it in the family. Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 Dave, thanks for the correction, I assumed it was still called Pour le Merite fuer Kunst und Wissenschaft, as in previous iterations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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