Soviet Through the Roof

[slava1stclass]

To all:

Absolutely no slow down whatsoever in the appreciation of the Order of Glory 1st Class - at least as concerns dealers' asking prices:

http://www.collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=16644

Note, too, the presence of a maker's mark on the reverse side.

Regards,

slava1stclass

Edited January 25, 2007 by slava1stclass

[NavyFCO]

I am again awed at the customer base that Igor has built over the years. I am sure that he probably has a customer (probably not in this country) who will pay that for it. I think if any "private party" were to try and sell it, they'd probably feel lucky to hit somewhere in the $4-$5K range, if even that.

Dave

[Riley1965]

Yes, Igor's prices continue to climb. The sad part is that they are being scooped up and returned to Russia. If I only had the money to rescue this one...

Doc

[Ed_Haynes]

Not sure I find it "sad" that these are going home to Russia. I just wish I were more certain that such lovelies were going to research-loving collectors rather than to "New Rich" accumulators and shameless investors.

In any case, no matter where Igor sets his prices, things do seem to sell . . . eventually. An interesting exercise in ECON 102.

[Riley1965]

Ed,

That is what I meant. It doesn't matter what country it goes to as long as it's for research and not for future profit. To me that is the loss...

Doc

Edited January 25, 2007 by Riley1965

[order_of_victory]

What intrests me is what would be the re sale price for the piece with research

Order of Victory

[Ed_Haynes]

What intrests me is what would be the re sale price for the piece with research

Order of Victory

So many dealers and accumulators/investors don't care for the research and just throw it out, being more interested in the "thing" and, perhaps, in the "type". Sad.

[DutchBoy]

Igor's Mongolian prices are also something to be seen to be believed...

Mongolian Civil Valor

He also just sold a Polar Star 1st for $12,000 (and quickly removed from his site...maybe he's ashamed of himself?) that no one else could possibly sell for $9,000 or even $8,000! And it sold almost right away.

I think it's fine to pay more to buy from a reputable dealer who goes out of his way to get rare pieces or pieces in the best condition possible...but there's a reasonable premium and then there's just plain gouging!

Edited January 25, 2007 by DutchBoy

[order_of_victory]

Igor's Mongolian prices are also something to be seen to be believed...

Mongolian Civil Valor

He also just sold a Polar Star 1st for $12,000 (and quickly removed from his site...maybe he's ashamed of himself?) that no one else could possibly sell for $9,000 or even $8,000!

I think it's fine to pay more to buy from a reputable dealer who goes out of his way to get rare pieces or pieces in the best condition possible...but there's a reasonable premium and then there's just plain gouging!

Having said that though it does look more impressive for the money than the Order of Glory 1st

Order of Victory

[Christian Zulus]

Not sure I find it "sad" that these are going home to Russia. I just wish I were more certain that such lovelies were going to research-loving collectors rather than to "New Rich" accumulators and shameless investors.

In any case, no matter where Igor sets his prices, things do seem to sell . . . eventually. An interesting exercise in ECON 102.

Dear Ed,

you are right at one point, but a "Glory 1cl" is not an item for the "New Rich", who invests (several hundreds of USD 1k) in Suvorov 1cl, etc., etc. or high-end Russian Imperial Orders, but an item for the "New Middle Class" in Russia. This "New Middle Class" in Russia - as in other Eastern-European Countries - is (very well) educated and has a virtual interest in research.

Last summer (2006) I had a long talk with one of the really major dealers - Russian nationality and located in Berlin - in Soviet Awards. He told me, that the demand concerning Glory-Cavaliers or HSUs is still rather reluctant - in comparison to Suvorv, Kutuzov, etc. -, but that trend might have changed, due to the money the "New Middle Class" in Russia now disposes.

We in Austria have for very long years a true "invasion" of Russians - in the city of Vienna and specially at the winter sports resorts (Kitzbuehel, Semmering, etc.) - and these people are not "primitive" at all, but they are wise investors, despite the fact, that they spend a fortune of money in Austria. These people are not only "Oligarchs", but in the majority managers of the big Russian corporations or officers of the Russian Government.

Putin supports (politically) the "New Middle Class" and these impacts we are now seeing at the sharp rise of Soviet Awards at the price tag of under USD 10k - Glory, Nevsky, RBL T 2, etc.

The fact is, that the purchasing power in the Russian Federation for Soviet Awards is now higher, than in the USA - it's their cultural heritage and not the cultural heritage of the USA. And it's fine, that the Russian people see the Soviet Awards as their cultural heritage .

Best regards

Christian

Edited January 25, 2007 by Christian Zulus

[Christian Zulus]

I am again awed at the customer base that Igor has built over the years. I am sure that he probably has a customer (probably not in this country) who will pay that for it. I think if any "private party" were to try and sell it, they'd probably feel lucky to hit somewhere in the $4-$5K range, if even that.

Dave

Dear Dave,

if you would have access to a Glory 1cl located in the "country of freedom & democracy" in the condition 8/10 for about USD 4000,- (or even less), you can make some profit by selling the medal to St. Petersburg or Moscow .

Igor sells his stock .

Best regards

Christian

[Christian Zulus]

Through the Roof ?

To all:

Absolutely no slow down whatsoever in the appreciation of the Order of Glory 1st Class - at least as concerns dealers' asking prices:

http://www.collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=16644

Note, too, the presence of a maker's mark on the reverse side.

Regards,

slava1stclass

Dear Mr. "slava1stclass",

I think, that you constructed the roof for a Glory 1cl rather low . I assume, that the "roof" for a Glory 1cl might be (2007/08) about USD 15k.

The quality of Igor's Glory 1cl is rather moderate, but still 8/10. Please have a look at Igor's Glory 1cl and mine one http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=5536 . Quality is very important at the Russian market, as Dave noted at several threads.

So, what is your "price corridor" for a Glory 1cl in the condition 10/10 ?

Best regards

Christian

Igor's Glory 1cl s/n. 1561

Christian's Glory 1cl s/n. 1965

[NavyFCO]

if you would have access to a Glory 1cl located in the "country of freedom & democracy" in the condition 8/10 for about USD 4000,- (or even less), you can make some profit by selling the medal to St. Petersburg or Moscow .

Dear Christian:

Like I said in the post, Igor has the customer base to do that - he has people who have the money in St Petersburg and Moscow and Kiev who are willing to pay. These contacts I don't have, unfortunately. C'est la vie!

Dave

[Ed_Haynes]

Dear Christian:

Like I said in the post, Igor has the customer base to do that - he has people who have the money in St Petersburg and Moscow and Kiev who are willing to pay. These contacts I don't have, unfortunately. C'est la vie!

Dave

Not "unfortunate" for us, Dave.

[Riley1965]

Not "unfortunate" for us, Dave.

No, but unfortunate for guys on my budget. I have to save for major purchases like the Polish medals. Not a complaint just reality.

Doc

[Bob]

Not sure I find it "sad" that these are going home to Russia. I just wish I were more certain that such lovelies were going to research-loving collectors rather than to "New Rich" accumulators and shameless investors.

Perhaps one can be rich AND be a research-loving collector... not all "rich" people are "evil"

[Christian Zulus]

The Russian "New Middle Class" as new collectors in our community

Perhaps one can be rich AND be a research-loving collector... not all "rich" people are "evil"

Dear Bob,

these are wise words .

The point is, that we should motivate these new Russian collectors of the (rather rich & very well educated) "New Middle Class" to participate at our forum at GMIC, to share their collections with us and to share their results of research. Research is for our fellow collector in Moscow, St. Petersburg or Kiev much easier (and cheaper), than for us in Europe or the USA.

They have their collectors platforms in the Russian www - in Russian language -, but all of them speak rather well English. It might be a task for our Russian speaking GMIC-members to invit the most active of these collectors to GMIC . Some of them already appeared at GMIC .

But a sad point remains: A "St. Andrew's Order" purchased for about USD 600k from one of the (really) "New Rich" will disappear for generations, I assume. The same might be true for high-end groups including several Suvorovs, Kutuzovs, HSU, etc., who sell in the 2 to 3 digit USD-k-range .

Soviet Awards are traded in an international market. Soviet Awards are researched by a truly international community. We have to aim, that GMIC gets even more international - and research (also of early Labour Awards!) should be the top-aim of our community .

Best regards

Christian

P.S.: The fixing of prices for the items is a result of the market - supply & demand. Igor is not a nasty guy, due to the fact he asks (at the first glimpse) rather high prices - he only brings supply & demand together .

[Bob]

I agree, getting more Russians here would be great (and fun!). Wouldn't mind getting some Russians with Mongolia collections here either (in Georgia, I actually met a fellow Mongolia collector in Tbilisi!).

I'd suggest that anybody who feels that Igor is asking too much:

- shouldn't buy from him

- and / or buy similar items and offer them for sale themselves to make some $$$

Igor is providing a service and nobody is forced to pay for it.

Besides, I personally find the quality of service very good (have purchased a few items from CR on occasions where I felt I would probably not be able to get a certain badly wanted part of my collection via other sources).

And finally, he's got a great website to drool over!

[Wild Card]

Gentlemen,

I find it curious that no one has mentioned the fact that a Glory 2nd class (type 1, #149) went for $9,200 and a Glory 3rd class (type 1, sn #899) went for $7,475 in Dmitry Markov?s auction. These prices include the buyer?s fee of 15%.

The point that I would like to make is that these are not prices set by a dealer. As a matter of fact, the estimates set by the dealer were $5,000 each. On the contrary, these prices were created by the bidders.

So Gentlemen it would seem that, to quote Pogo - ?We have met the enemy and he is us?.

[Wild Card]

Dear Dave,

if you would have access ... the "country of freedom & democracy" ...

Best regards

Christian

I'm sorry Christian, you lost me on this. Would you care to be a little more specific?

Thanks,

Wild Card

[Christian Zulus]

I'm sorry Christian, you lost me on this. Would you care to be a little more specific?

Thanks,

Wild Card

Dear "Wild Card",

"country of freedom & democracy" is like "god's own country" a well known synonym for the USA. No idea, which US-President introduced that term .

Best regards

Christian

[Christian Zulus]

I find it curious that no one has mentioned the fact that a Glory 2nd class (type 1, #149) went for $9,200 and a Glory 3rd class (type 1, sn #899) went for $7,475 in Dmitry Markov?s auction. These prices include the buyer?s fee of 15%.

The point that I would like to make is that these are not prices set by a dealer. As a matter of fact, the estimates set by the dealer were $5,000 each. On the contrary, these prices were created by the bidders.

So Gentlemen it would seem that, to quote Pogo - ?We have met the enemy and he is us?.

Dear Wild Card,

these to Glory are extremly rare - so the hammer price doesn't disturb me so much.

The other results (incl. 15 % buyer's fee) of that auction concerning Soviet Awards correspond almost 1:1 with the prices, Igor asks at his website, but they had been - as you noted - created by the bidders .

Only in the case of that RB #2 r.i. there is a hughe gap in favour for Igor: Auction result is USD 6325,- and at Igor's website you can get a similar RB #2 r.i. for only USD 1750,-.

The auction results are rather high for an early HSU - USD 19550,- and for a converted Kutuzov 2cl on a hanger - USD 57500,-.

N.Y.-auction is in the usual trend for Soviet Awards for several years: Very rare items increase very fast in their market value.

Best regards

Christian

[JimZ]

Been absent for a while in case any one missed me ... no I did not think you did

As usual I think its way too much hype about prices! Rule or exception beats me.... but far too many exceptions of late methinks!! I do not worry. I just think that it makes for more sensible buying and of course, more waiting to find good opportunities to maximise available funds!!

Regarding other comments on this thread - I think that it is good to see that some of the orders are going back home to their motherland. Lets face it, love them as much as we do its part of Russian heritage and it therefore does not sadden me to know that a group or order went to a Russian collector.

Now.... whether he reseaches them or not - I of course like to think that they are more than just shiny trinkets to any collector! But lets be honest - if one is interested in pure research one can order anything one wants without having the order in hand. A serial number at random can make for good research too without necessarily having the medal.... lets see....research for the Order of Glory 1st class numbered say 35 is interesting with or without the order itself in any case! Of course the order plus research is much better when they come together.... but in any case.... not an argument to say that homebound items become unresearchable!

Jim

[Gerd Becker]

Only in the case of that RB #2 r.i. there is a hughe gap in favour for Igor: Auction result is USD 6325,- and at Igor's website you can get a similar RB #2 r.i. for only USD 1750,-.

Christian

Christian, it only fetched over 6000 Dollar, because it was a 2nd award, serialnumber 2! ORB 2nd awards are at 800-1200 Dollar currently.

Agree with Jim, btw.

best regards,

Gerd

Edited January 29, 2007 by Gerd Becker

[Christian Zulus]

Christian, it only fetched over 6000 Dollar, because it was a 2nd award, serialnumber 2! ORB 2nd awards are at 800-1200 Dollar currently.

Agree with Jim, btw.

best regards,

Gerd

Dear Gerd,

o.k., s/n. 2 for the RB #2 is an argument .

RB #2 r.i. are well above the USD 800 - 1200 range.

I also agree with Jim, but according to the fact, that most of us do not have a rather unlimited supply of Euros or Dollars for purchasing Soviet Awards, prices matter .

Best regards

Christian