Great Dane Posted May 9, 2007 Posted May 9, 2007 (edited) Mark,I very much doubt it. All the sources (Who's Who, State Calendars, Army List) have an Albert the Bear award and none mention a RAO award at all.What gave you that idea? /Mike Edited May 9, 2007 by Great Dane
Great Dane Posted May 9, 2007 Posted May 9, 2007 (edited) Oh, I just saw your other thread where the RAO was mentioned...I do see your point: Maybe he was wearing his first 5 awards on the medal bar. That would make the last one the Russian Order of St. Anne - but I have great difficulties in identifying the 4th as an Anhalt Albrecht the Bear... (and it doesn't help there's a button in the way )And the ribbon for the last award doesn't really match a St. Anne ribbon...P.S:I'm not sure I understand Jacky's point about Commander 1st. Class versus Grand Officer...Normally these class names are used to refer to the same class (just like Knight 1. class equals Officer)/Mike Edited May 9, 2007 by Great Dane
mravery Posted May 9, 2007 Author Posted May 9, 2007 Well,A couple of things.....He is wearing his awards in the order that they were awarded. You even made mention before that they seemed 'out of place' since the Order of the Sword should come before the Griffen.. but it's third....... then the Albert and St Anne were issued at the same time (listed for the same year).The Albert is not visable on the bar and there are only 5 medals.... and all can be id'd but the last.The ribbon looks like a RAO colors and the cross looks like a 4th class with an enamaled center.Whatcha think ?CheersMark
mravery Posted May 9, 2007 Author Posted May 9, 2007 Nope....St Anne is 4th..... dark arms, design between the arms and dark ribbon......
Jacky Posted May 9, 2007 Posted May 9, 2007 Hello Mark,That's why I thought that it was the Red Eagle Order, the middle stripe on the ribbon is quite correct for the RAO, as are the two darker stripes.as this is a black-white picture, it's not easy to recognise the decorations, but metal arms, enamelled center and the ribbon, makes me thinking about the RAO.I'm not sure I understand Jacky's point about Commander 1st. Class versus Grand Officer...Normally these class names are used to refer to the same class (just like Knight 1. class equals Officer)Hi mark,we're talking about the same class, it's just a matter of naming the classThe correct name for the dutch order would be (translated) Grand Officer in the order of Orange Nassau. We call it "Groot officier van Oranje Nassau" in the Netherlands, we don't know any commander 1st class or what so ever, we just have the member, knight, officer, commander, grand officer and knight grand cross for the order of Orange Nassau. Kind regards,Jacky
mravery Posted May 9, 2007 Author Posted May 9, 2007 we're talking about the same class, it's just a matter of naming the classThe correct name for the dutch order would be (translated) Grand Officer in the order of Orange Nassau. We call it "Groot officier van Oranje Nassau" in the Netherlands, we don't know any commander 1st class or what so ever, we just have the member, knight, officer, commander, grand officer and knight grand cross for the order of Orange Nassau. Kind regards,JackyHey Jackie,Ok.. I thought you were talking about the Grand Cross of the Dannebrog (sash and star)... My misunderstanding.. sorry CheersMark
Great Dane Posted May 9, 2007 Posted May 9, 2007 Maybe it's possible to look him up in a list of RAO recipients? I wouldn't know exactly which one, but since it was possible to find him in an Oldenburg list, then maybe a Prussian similar one?/Mike
mravery Posted May 9, 2007 Author Posted May 9, 2007 WellThat's a thought.. but I'm not sure if there is one... I'll have to sniff around.I'll let you know what I find out !CheersMark
mravery Posted May 10, 2007 Author Posted May 10, 2007 Hey guys,A few bright and shineys arrived today....... thought I would post a few pics....
Jacky Posted May 10, 2007 Posted May 10, 2007 (edited) Hello Mark,Thanks for your pictures, I see you have more nice uniforms dressed up! Would you mind opening your own showcase on this site and show off all your uniforms??Concerning the Italian order, it appears to be upside down?Kind regards,Jacky Edited May 10, 2007 by Jacky
mravery Posted May 10, 2007 Author Posted May 10, 2007 Hello Mark,Thanks for your pictures, I see you have more nice uniforms dressed up! Would you mind opening your own showcase on this site and show off all your uniforms??Concerning the Italian order, it appears to be upside down?Kind regards,JackyHey Jacky,I had an old thread here under the Collectors displays which showed some of them... but it's probably outdated... So... I'll try to post some new ones.Yes.... the center of the crown is upside down..... I think at one point it came apart andthey put it back together unside down... I'll fix it one of these days .CheersMark
Yankee Posted May 10, 2007 Posted May 10, 2007 Hey guys,A few bright and shineys arrived today....... thought I would post a few pics....Hi MarkAbsolutely fantastic displays Is the uniform on the left a German State General? One always notices all those Third Reich uniforms but seldom one encounters WWl & prior officer corps. A real marvel to see the hats and I noticed you have medal bars on the other uniforms excellent research and dedication. Great jobSincerelyBrian
mravery Posted May 12, 2007 Author Posted May 12, 2007 Thanks Brian,Yes.. those are Imperial German generals. A couple are named and a couple are not. I'll post some pics later in th Collectors Display forum if you want to see them. Thanks for the kinds words !Mike......I have a thought about the medal bar.......In his picture that you posted... even his bar would be considered 'high' as it is in line with the top button...... and the top of his bar would line up with the top of my set of loops on the tunic. However, the metal plate would not be able to span the full length of the medal bar as the button would be in the way (I know I'm rambling.. but stay with me)...... What if his bar only had the metal plate running from, say the silver merit cross till the St. Anne (4th medal).. and then there was a 'button hole' in the ribbon for the RAO (or unknown medal) in position 5 ?Being that the medal bar was only supported from the very top of the ribbon (by the metal backing)... the short set of loop (on my tunic) would be for a second metal plate, pin back, to keep the medals from 'bouncing' as he moved around... I know this is 'way out there'... but I'm trying to determin why those loops are there....
Great Dane Posted May 12, 2007 Posted May 12, 2007 Hi Mark,I see your point, but instead of making a button hole in the last medal ribbon maybe he just mounted the last medal as a single. That way he could push the end of the medal bar under the button and do the same with the last ribbon. At least that is the way I would do it if I was wearing his medals I don't know how much attention you should give the uniform in the photo. Obviously it must be another uniform since yours doesn't have any loops where he's wearing the Dannebrog GC Star. Or am I wrong?Another thing that keeps 'irritating' me is the position of the loops down the right side - why are they placed so low? Why not between the upper buttons along the side?They look more like loops for Crosses/Stars, but that doesn't make much sense... Are you sure you found all the loops on your uniform?/Mike
mravery Posted May 12, 2007 Author Posted May 12, 2007 Hi Mark,I see your point, but instead of making a button hole in the last medal ribbon maybe he just mounted the last medal as a single. That way he could push the end of the medal bar under the button and do the same with the last ribbon. At least that is the way I would do it if I was wearing his medals I don't know how much attention you should give the uniform in the photo. Obviously it must be another uniform since yours doesn't have any loops where he's wearing the Dannebrog GC Star. Or am I wrong?Another thing that keeps 'irritating' me is the position of the loops down the right side - why are they placed so low? Why not between the upper buttons along the side?They look more like loops for Crosses/Stars, but that doesn't make much sense... Are you sure you found all the loops on your uniform?/MikeWell.... I see your point... BUT.....No single medal.. as there are no loops for it.......the loops down the right side..... If he was wearing the sash for one of his Grand Crosses..... the stars would not be seen if they were higher as the sash would cover them And.... the number of loops would be right if you count the stars that he had circa 1934.......Just more for you to chew on !CheersMark
Great Dane Posted May 12, 2007 Posted May 12, 2007 (edited) Singles were/are normally attached with a safety pin (i.e. not on a metal bar), so no loops would be necessary.But your guess is as good as mine... Yes, shifting the Crosses/Stars to the right side when a sash was worn does make sense...But still - out of curiosity - are there any more loops higher on that side? What about ones just covered by the 'fold over' (near the buttons)?/Mike Edited May 12, 2007 by Great Dane
mravery Posted May 12, 2007 Author Posted May 12, 2007 Nope.. what you see is what you get........Do you know of anywhere else where there might be a picture of him (archives etc) that I could write off too ? Another collector stated that they thought they saw a painting of him hanging somewhere. in Copenhagen ... but was not certian of that.CheersMark
Great Dane Posted May 12, 2007 Posted May 12, 2007 No, I can't think of any places that would have pictures of him (and believe me, I have been giving it a lot of thoughts...). I have never heard of a painting.One place you could try is 'Ordenskapitlet'. Any Knight (or higher) were invited to send a description of their life when the order was awarded.I don't know what the exact policy is concerning public inspection of these, but you can always try to ask - maybe he attached pictures to his description.The address is:Ordenskapitlet Christian VIIIs Pal?Amalienborg1257 Copenhagen K/Mike
mravery Posted May 12, 2007 Author Posted May 12, 2007 Don't suppose they have an email address ?The quote from the other collector was " I?m 100% sure there is at least one of him hanging were he was president prob. in Copenhagen"No no other details.....I would love to find it... then it would show the RAO on his medal bar CheersMark
mravery Posted May 18, 2007 Author Posted May 18, 2007 Reverse... marked A.M.Will look nice when cleaned up (belt sander here I come )....CheersMark
ccj Posted July 8, 2007 Posted July 8, 2007 I've been watching, waiting for updates. This is very exciting, I can't imagine how much fun you are having Mark.
mravery Posted July 8, 2007 Author Posted July 8, 2007 I've been watching, waiting for updates. This is very exciting, I can't imagine how much fun you are having Mark. Hey Charles,Thanks... though things have slowed down.. trying to determine the final order (I'm betting on RAO 4th)... but until we can find another picture of him......... CheersMark
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