Small Collection of 1870 groups

[jshorter]

Here are the two bars that I currently have.

Jason

[jshorter]

And the reverse.....

[jshorter]

And the second set.

[jshorter]

And the reverse.....

[jshorter]

And this one is on the way, and should be here tomorrow or Friday. The medals were arranged in the wrong order on the bar, so I have edited the photos so they are now correct (I will post actual updated photos when it arrives).

In everyones opinion, would you leave the damaged ribbon on the end alone, or would you somehow try to repair it?

Thanks!

Jason

[Christian J]

And this one is on the way, and should be here tomorrow or Friday. The medals were arranged in the wrong order on the bar, so I have edited the photos so they are now correct (I will post actual updated photos when it arrives).

In everyones opinion, would you leave the damaged ribbon on the end alone, or would you somehow try to repair it?

Thanks!

Jason

You might want to have a lookie at this thread.

Edited June 10, 2009 by RaZpuTiN

[jshorter]

You might want to have a lookie at this thread.

LOL! I didn't catch that until you showed me the link, but thanks!!! :cheeky:

[Tom Y]

And this one is on the way, and should be here tomorrow or Friday. The medals were arranged in the wrong order on the bar, so I have edited the photos so they are now correct (I will post actual updated photos when it arrives).

In everyones opinion, would you leave the damaged ribbon on the end alone, or would you somehow try to repair it?

Thanks!

Jason

So you're the one who got it I'm glad it's staying "in the family". Maybe someday we can reunite it with the rest of the group.

BTW, Jacquie, the seller, didn't want to break up the group, but the consignor insisted. I had a nice correspondence with her and she feels the way we do about medallic diaspora.

Edited June 10, 2009 by Tom Y

[jshorter]

BTW, Jacquie, the seller, didn't want to break up the group, but the consignor insisted. I had a nice correspondence with her and she feels the way we do about medallic diaspora.

Tom,

Congrats as well! I saw the other sale as well, but I only collect medal bars, so I wasn't interested in them that much. I am currious as to what your bar is for? I am not familiar with too many veterans medals....

Jason

[Beau Newman]

Posted previously in another thread but, this is an example of a Bavarian 2nd Corps NCO group. The 1st award is the 1866-1905 style MVK. The swords were not authorized until 1891 and are a later addition.

[Tom Y]

Tom,

Congrats as well! I saw the other sale as well, but I only collect medal bars, so I wasn't interested in them that much. I am currious as to what your bar is for? I am not familiar with too many veterans medals....

Jason

The medals are on the wrong ribbons, but the first (second medal) is an unofficial unit vanity medal for the 7th Brandenburg Infantry Regiment. The round aluminum? one is for a Chicago expat vets' organization for a trip to Berlin and Leipzig. The black iron one is a Knights Templar jewel. Better scans when they arrive.

[OTTER76]

Emedals recently posted this spange. I know really very little about precedence, so please forgive a potentially silly question: considering the red eagle order and centennial medal, shouldnt this soldier have been awarded an EK with 25 oak leaves as well? Rick Research's charts would place this fellow among the I Armee Korps if I am not mistaken. I like how you can feel history in this one.

[redeagleorder]

The iron cross would have been awarded for battlefield bravery. No iron cross = no oak leaves in 1895. And the red eagle was a routine peace time award to many officers who had been serving for some time, usually majors and above.

[Ulsterman]

Good Lord! Jshorter- do you still have that regimental pair in post 58 above? I just saw that pair- without the medals- at Boxboro last month!!!

[saschaw]

Emedals recently posted this spange. I know really very little about precedence, so please forgive a potentially silly question: considering the red eagle order and centennial medal, shouldnt this soldier have been awarded an EK with 25 oak leaves as well? Rick Research's charts would place this fellow among the I Armee Korps if I am not mistaken. I like how you can feel history in this one.

redeagleorder yet commented on the lack of an EK2, so I'll do the rest: this is most likely not a military's bar, but one to a then-civilian and former veteran of the unity wars.

Let me explain... as an EM or NCO, he would received the "Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen", the well know big silver medal ("Verdienst um den Staat") instead of the RAO. An officer with RAO4, however, would wear the XXV long service cross. Due to the lack of this, it's most likely a civilian's bar. Maybe a civil servant, maybe a factory owner, maybe a judge or a lawyer or ton of other groups of persons whose rank/status was eligibly for this class of this merit order.

By the way, a very recent detection on the RAO4, found in the archives and published by Mike Estelamnn on DGO magazine: the change from smooth to pebbles cross armes took place in 1885!

[OTTER76]

Redeagleorder (Matthew?) & Sascha, thanks very much for sharing your thoughts. One can learn fast among you guys. RAO4's cross arms tip is quite interesting!

[redeagleorder]

Thanks Sascha for that info, I knew officers had to serve some time but didn't know it was 25 years. The possibilty of receiving the RAO as a civilian I didn't think of, although I should have considering the lack of a long service cross.

By the way, this soldier was probably part of the 2nd Army Corps.

Matthew

[Ulsterman]

My humble Bavarian....

[Ulsterman]

One I used to own...sigh....

[Komtur]

Oberlazareth-Gehilfe Michael Zymalkowski, 3. Kompanie des 1. Posenschen Infanterie-Regiments Nr. 18

[Cartaphilus]

Let me explain... as an EM or NCO, he would received the "Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen", the well know big silver medal ("Verdienst um den Staat") instead of the RAO. An officer with RAO4, however, would wear the XXV long service cross. Due to the lack of this, it's most likely a civilian's bar. Maybe a civil servant, maybe a factory owner, maybe a judge or a lawyer or ton of other groups of persons whose rank/status was eligibly for this class of this merit order.

Dear Saschaw, I don't understand from your words if the "Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen" (bronze and silver medals) were decorations only for enlisted men and NCOs, or if these medals could be given to officers.

And what about the Cross of the General Honor Decoration? Was it an award for NCOs only, for officers only, or for both levels of military?

Thanks for your answers and your time.

[redeagleorder]

The Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen (both bronze and silver) were not given out to officers. I am not sure about the Cross of the General Honour Decoration, but I think that it wasn't given to officers either.

Generally junior officers such as lieutenants would be given an Order of the Crown 4th class, whilst (apart from some lucky captains) majors and above were awarded the Order of the Red Eagle 4th class.

[Komtur]

The Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen (both bronze and silver) were not given out to officers. I am not sure about the Cross of the General Honour Decoration, but I think that it wasn't given to officers either.

Both decorations were not awarded to officers or similar civil ranks.

Regards, Komtur.

[Cartaphilus]

I always thought that in peacetime the officers were decorated with orders (Crown and Red Eagle), while the NCOs and soldiers received the Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen. But I have not clear whether the Cross was also delivered only to non commissioned officers and soldiers, or whether it could be given also to officers.

[Komtur]

The Prussian orders were awarded only to officers or to similar ranking civil persons. The Allgemeine Ehrenzeichen (General Honour Decoration) were instituted for lower military or civil ranks. To have a possibility for more differentiation in honoring persons of the lower social classes the Allgemeine Ehrenzeichen in Gold (General Honour Decoration in Gold) were created in 1890. Because of economical reasons these massive golden medals were replaced in 1900 by the Kreuz des Allgemeinen Ehrenzeichen (Cross of General Honour Decoartion). In 1912 the decorations ranking below the orders were supplemented by the Verdienstkreuz in Gold (Honour Cross in Gold), Verdienstkreuz in Silber (Honour Cross in Silver) and Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen in Bronze (General Honour Decoration in Bronze). At the end of the monarchy there were the following non order lower decorations (from highest to lowest):

1. Verdienstkreuz in Gold

2. Verdienstkreuz in Silber

3. Kreuz des Allgemeinen Ehrenzeichens (former medal Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen in Gold)

4. Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen in Silber

5. Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen in Bronze

To make it more complicated there was the possibility to award the three crosses (1.-3.) with the Royal Crown or to award the Royal Crown to these crosses. That is roughly the developement of the decoration system below the orders after 1839. In the early 19th century there were some other regulations and changes.

Regards, Komtur.

Edited October 8, 2013 by Komtur