1870 EK NK medal bar - interesting with questions!

[Paul C]

I picked this bar up a while back and it raises some intersting questions. The medals are

1. 1870 EK NK

2. RAO 4

3. PCO 4

4. LD1 (20 years reserve officer LSC)

The questions in my mind are:

1. Where is the 1870/1 campaign medal either NK or K

2. Where is the Centennial medal (1897)

This reserve office could have died prior to 1897. His 1870 EK indicates he was involved with the 1870 war, so where is the campaign medal? Can anyone offer any opinions. I can see no reason why someone would switch a 1914 EK for a 1870 EK.

[Paul C]

red back

[dond]

Firstly, I think if it is original than it it pre-1895 as the EK has no oaks for the Jubilee.

[Paul C]

I agree as to pre-1895. I am still perplexed as to why no 1870 campaign medal, either K or NK!

[gregM]

I agree that it is a 1870 issue piece as the EK2 is a Godet "short 7" style of cross.

[Mike K]

Maybe he was killed during the war? How quickly were 1870 EKs actually handed out after being earnt?

Maybe a better question is when were the 1870/71 campaign medals awarded? He would had to have died before then I guess.

Regards

Mike

[Paul C]

I don't think he was killed during the war due to the fact that the EK is on a non-combatant ribbon.

[Ulsterman]

Beamter/Rat? In Berlin in 1870-71?

Edited July 10, 2007 by Ulsterman

[Deruelle]

Probably a doctor who died between 1873 and 1895.

Christophe

Edited July 10, 2007 by Deruelle

[Paul C]

I just checked the Hessenthal and Schreiber book and the 1870 campaign medal was also awarded to doctors. If he died during the war or before May 1871 when the campaign medal was awarded the question still remains of why there are not any campaign medals from the 1860's. With at least 20 years time in service he would have had other campaign medals.

My question is stands...

What type of officer could have recieved the EK NK and NOt any campaign medals?

[saschaw]

I didn't think it was possible to get an 1870 Iron cross without the 1870 medal, but I'm hear to lear.

One more thing: we can be sure his bar is way post 1871 as the Red Eagle order is the late type, not the elderly one with smooth arms (pre 1879) ...

[Guest Rick Research]

The Crown Order is the later type, too.

If there was no LD1, then I'd assume a civilian-- just like the ones who got "white black" 1914 EKs but were not entitled to Hindenburg Crosses later.

But here we have an LD1. That's 20 years in the military reserves.

Can't possibly have been in BEFORE 1870 and out as a civilian BEFORE then...

although there were no "stay at home" medals for the earlier wars as there was in 1870, I can't imagine an aD type PRE 1870 with those two final type Orders AFTER. The style backing is also typical for late 1890s on-- before that they are generaally nasty, exposed "raw" icky things.

The only logical explanation is a 1914 "white black" EK has been switched for the 1870.

NOT that I would suggest pulling this apart or anything, but that is what comes to mind as the "only possible" rational explanation.

[saschaw]

The LD1 is unlikely without Centenarmedaille - but still possilbe if it's a WWI bar with switched EK II ...

But is this a bar we would date in the Great War? I'd think it's a typical pre war bar, dating ca. 1890 to 1910. But this is always hard to tell.

Is it possible the wearer did not want to wear the "coines" but just the crosses, leaving out the 1870 medal and maybe the 1897?

[Paul C]

That is a very good point that maybe the wearer decided NOT to wear the campaign medals and centennial. The construction of the medal bar is such that I can't believe that it has been messed with. The only conclusion I can draw is that the wearer choose not to wear campaign medals.

[Gerd Becker]

The LD1 hangs a little bit lower than the others. Would the combination would make more sense with an LD2, which someone potentionally switched with the LD1, because he found it more fancy with 4 crosses?

Edited July 12, 2007 by Gerd Becker

[Stogieman]

I have to agree Paul. I think the EK has been switched. No KDM, but the EK2? Construction style and materials appears consistent with post-1900, not pre-1900

RAO should have smooth arms.

[Stogieman]

As an aside... here's an example

[Stogieman]

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