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I might be mistaken but I was told awhile back that when you see a 57er medal bar with the ribbon crossed over the top it means it was an EK1 and the regular straight ribbon would be the EK2, makes sense to me but I dont know how accurate that is??????

Eric

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If its not fabricated then I would lay bets on it being a 'Don River Front' grouping. Still - WOW!

That is a great grouping. What was the Hungarian Order awarded for?

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If its not fabricated then I would lay bets on it being a 'Don River Front' grouping. Still - WOW!

I'm with Paul, not sure about that medal and is it a "57er" or is it the same as a war time peice?

thanks guys!!!

Eric

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The award is the Hungarian Order of Merit Knights Cross with swords and war ribbon. This is a rather high award as they had several grades of the Bravery medals (NCOs and Other Ranks) and the Signum Laudis (Officers). But the Knights Cross is something along the lines of the EK1 to the German Cross in Gold. With swords its an award for being there and doing something extraordinary. My guess is that this bar belinged to someone in either the 26th Inf Div, 168th Inf Div or the 700th Panzer Verband.

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Thanks Hunyadi :cheers:

Did a quick google search, I sure would like to get the full sized pin back of the Hungarian Order of Merit.

I guess thats another one for the wish list :speechless:

Eric

Edited by Eric K.
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Thanks Hunyadi :cheers:

Did a quick google search, I sure would like to get the full sized pin back of the Hungarian Order of Merit.

I guess thats another one for the wish list :speechless:

Eric

You and me both! If I had been smart I would have gotten one five years ago!

As for the issue of being a 57'er. After the war there were some 200,000 or so Hungarian / Germans (Hungarians with German ancestors or parents, German sounding names, etc...) who were deported between 1946 and 1948. Many of these had served with the Hungarian Army and as a result of their "Horthy" ties - their citizenship was stripped and their rights were revoked. Many who had served and were decroated went to Germany where (I believe S&L and perhaps Godet) produced post-war copies of these - it would seem logical that they also made minis for such bars.

Edited by hunyadi
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The award is the Hungarian Order of Merit Knights Cross with swords and war ribbon. This is a rather high award as they had several grades of the Bravery medals (NCOs and Other Ranks) and the Signum Laudis (Officers). But the Knights Cross is something along the lines of the EK1 to the German Cross in Gold. With swords its an award for being there and doing something extraordinary. My guess is that this bar belinged to someone in either the 26th Inf Div, 168th Inf Div or the 700th Panzer Verband.

Thank you for the explanation, Hunyadi cheers.gif

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Gents,

Miniature medals were not produced very much in Germany until the 1957 awards. After that they were made for wear on the Mess Dress uniform. I have some of these miniature bars in my collection but unfortunately they are all in storage. I have no doubts as to the authenticity of this bar. I would love to have a bar like this for my collection. I know just the uniform that I would put it on!

Regards,

Gordon

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Kev,

Sorry but I have to disagree with you on the Hungarian one being a WWII award. I doubt very much if they were available during that time period. As I mentioned previously, it was extremely rare to see a German miniature during WWII. I doubt one would be worn on a German 1957 produced bar as this one is. More than likely a post war german made miniature for the 1957 awards. I guess we will just have to disagree on this one.

Regards,

Gordon

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I think it only fair to state that the Hungarian award is probably the original mini he got during his service in WW2.

As obtaining one after WW2 would be nigh impossible.

Kevin in Deva. :cheers:

Hi Kevin -

I would highly doubt that as minis were not given out with the award during WW2, in fact mini's during WW2 for Hungarian awards are almost not existant from this period and were private purchases (and it seems only the well to do ever bothered to get one - for every 25 imperial minis I might find a WW2 mini for a chain . I would find it hard to believe that he would have had a mini before the resurgance of the 1957 awards or that this one is a wartime product. A year ago I met a respectable collector who showed me his collection of the Orders of Merit. In the collection were some of these German made Hungarian awards. They were almost identical to the Hungarian produced items, but with a few die variations, he claimed that these had been made by S&L after the war for Hungarian Germans who had been deported to Germany. Later I heard that Godet was also making a few after the war from another source. (but the ones he was showing me were fill sized and not the minis). Of course there was no way for me to confim these tales, but it seems probable as the communists were eager to get rid of the 'B' List - a list of undesireable characters in the military and public service who were a little too 'anti-Stalinist' for their liking. Out of fear many families with German sounding names, changed thier names to avoid deportation. Many of the officer corps who had obtained valor awards were among the B-list. Also - as many Germans were decorated by the Hungarians from Army Group South, it would make some economical sense for Godet or S&L to produce these for the 1957 line-up.

It would be great if we could get a better shot of the item in question before making any more assumptions :beer:

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