Eric K. Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 This usually is'nt my field of collecting but I couldn't pass it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric K. Posted August 1, 2007 Author Share Posted August 1, 2007 terrible !!!!! sorry about the focuseric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex K Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Hi Erik, nice little bar, but why the two EKII's?regardsAlex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric K. Posted August 1, 2007 Author Share Posted August 1, 2007 I might be mistaken but I was told awhile back that when you see a 57er medal bar with the ribbon crossed over the top it means it was an EK1 and the regular straight ribbon would be the EK2, makes sense to me but I dont know how accurate that is??????Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave B Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Yep Eric is correct, EKI/EKII/IAB and dunno what the last one is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev in Deva Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 The last one I believe to be the Hungarian Order of Merit 1922-1945!Kevin in Deva. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Very nice Bundesrepublik group! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--dj--Joe Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Appreciate seeing it. Thanks.--dj--Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 HelloA nice grouping, and in the correct style. Thanks for sharing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Craig Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 Kev,I believe you are correct about the Hungarian award. First one I have seen as a miniature on a German bar.Regards,Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunyadi Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 If its not fabricated then I would lay bets on it being a 'Don River Front' grouping. Still - WOW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 If its not fabricated then I would lay bets on it being a 'Don River Front' grouping. Still - WOW!That is a great grouping. What was the Hungarian Order awarded for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric K. Posted August 4, 2007 Author Share Posted August 4, 2007 If its not fabricated then I would lay bets on it being a 'Don River Front' grouping. Still - WOW!I'm with Paul, not sure about that medal and is it a "57er" or is it the same as a war time peice?thanks guys!!!Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunyadi Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 The award is the Hungarian Order of Merit Knights Cross with swords and war ribbon. This is a rather high award as they had several grades of the Bravery medals (NCOs and Other Ranks) and the Signum Laudis (Officers). But the Knights Cross is something along the lines of the EK1 to the German Cross in Gold. With swords its an award for being there and doing something extraordinary. My guess is that this bar belinged to someone in either the 26th Inf Div, 168th Inf Div or the 700th Panzer Verband. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric K. Posted August 5, 2007 Author Share Posted August 5, 2007 (edited) Thanks Hunyadi Did a quick google search, I sure would like to get the full sized pin back of the Hungarian Order of Merit. I guess thats another one for the wish list Eric Edited August 5, 2007 by Eric K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunyadi Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 (edited) Thanks Hunyadi Did a quick google search, I sure would like to get the full sized pin back of the Hungarian Order of Merit. I guess thats another one for the wish list EricYou and me both! If I had been smart I would have gotten one five years ago!As for the issue of being a 57'er. After the war there were some 200,000 or so Hungarian / Germans (Hungarians with German ancestors or parents, German sounding names, etc...) who were deported between 1946 and 1948. Many of these had served with the Hungarian Army and as a result of their "Horthy" ties - their citizenship was stripped and their rights were revoked. Many who had served and were decroated went to Germany where (I believe S&L and perhaps Godet) produced post-war copies of these - it would seem logical that they also made minis for such bars. Edited August 5, 2007 by hunyadi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 The award is the Hungarian Order of Merit Knights Cross with swords and war ribbon. This is a rather high award as they had several grades of the Bravery medals (NCOs and Other Ranks) and the Signum Laudis (Officers). But the Knights Cross is something along the lines of the EK1 to the German Cross in Gold. With swords its an award for being there and doing something extraordinary. My guess is that this bar belinged to someone in either the 26th Inf Div, 168th Inf Div or the 700th Panzer Verband.Thank you for the explanation, Hunyadi cheers.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Craig Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 Gents,Miniature medals were not produced very much in Germany until the 1957 awards. After that they were made for wear on the Mess Dress uniform. I have some of these miniature bars in my collection but unfortunately they are all in storage. I have no doubts as to the authenticity of this bar. I would love to have a bar like this for my collection. I know just the uniform that I would put it on!Regards,Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev in Deva Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 I think it only fair to state that the Hungarian award is probably the original mini he got during his service in WW2.As obtaining one after WW2 would be nigh impossible.Kevin in Deva. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex K Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 Just for info, here are my Orders of Merit, I particularly like this award, I think I may have posted these somewhere before!regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Craig Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 Kev,Sorry but I have to disagree with you on the Hungarian one being a WWII award. I doubt very much if they were available during that time period. As I mentioned previously, it was extremely rare to see a German miniature during WWII. I doubt one would be worn on a German 1957 produced bar as this one is. More than likely a post war german made miniature for the 1957 awards. I guess we will just have to disagree on this one.Regards,Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunyadi Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 I think it only fair to state that the Hungarian award is probably the original mini he got during his service in WW2.As obtaining one after WW2 would be nigh impossible.Kevin in Deva. Hi Kevin - I would highly doubt that as minis were not given out with the award during WW2, in fact mini's during WW2 for Hungarian awards are almost not existant from this period and were private purchases (and it seems only the well to do ever bothered to get one - for every 25 imperial minis I might find a WW2 mini for a chain . I would find it hard to believe that he would have had a mini before the resurgance of the 1957 awards or that this one is a wartime product. A year ago I met a respectable collector who showed me his collection of the Orders of Merit. In the collection were some of these German made Hungarian awards. They were almost identical to the Hungarian produced items, but with a few die variations, he claimed that these had been made by S&L after the war for Hungarian Germans who had been deported to Germany. Later I heard that Godet was also making a few after the war from another source. (but the ones he was showing me were fill sized and not the minis). Of course there was no way for me to confim these tales, but it seems probable as the communists were eager to get rid of the 'B' List - a list of undesireable characters in the military and public service who were a little too 'anti-Stalinist' for their liking. Out of fear many families with German sounding names, changed thier names to avoid deportation. Many of the officer corps who had obtained valor awards were among the B-list. Also - as many Germans were decorated by the Hungarians from Army Group South, it would make some economical sense for Godet or S&L to produce these for the 1957 line-up. It would be great if we could get a better shot of the item in question before making any more assumptions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric K. Posted August 6, 2007 Author Share Posted August 6, 2007 (edited) This is as good as I could get, No maker marks. Its really well made and alot thicker than all the other awards. Edited August 6, 2007 by Eric K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric K. Posted August 6, 2007 Author Share Posted August 6, 2007 The back is made just as well as the front,Thanks again for all the info Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric K. Posted August 6, 2007 Author Share Posted August 6, 2007 And yes Rick this camera is stuck in 2003 Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now