A simple request when posting fakes

[Paul C]

Although I have been collecting Imperial German for awhile I am far from an expert. I have a simple request that when you post a fake ribbon bar or medal bar or decoration that you explain why you think it is fake. That way all of us can learn.

[joe campbell]

couldn't agree more, paul!

and i think that goes for responding to others pieces as well.

joe

[Ed_Haynes]

Complete agreement. And I think this applies to all sub-areas of the wider forum.

The idea is for us all to learn, not just to grant self-important unsupported Olympian judgments and feel better about the size of our expertise. The only potential problem is that while we all learn, the fake-makers have the chance to learn too. That is a risk we ought to be prepared to take, I think.

They day you stop learning, you aren't what is called an "expert", you are what is called "dead".

[Christophe]

(...) They day you stop learning, you aren't what is called an "expert", you are what is called "dead".

I fully support all that has been said. And, specifically your last sentence, Ed.

Ch.

[Ulsterman]

Her,hear.

Also, if possible-use weights. I am tired of seeing "Is this real?" posts of objects which often look ok and later find out they were made of aluminum and well painted (etc.). There are a Lot of great fake artists in the art world and not a few (still) in obscure corners of Nuministics. Weights and measurements sometimes tell 75% of an objects' story.

[Ed_Haynes]

Weights and measurements sometimes tell 75% of an objects' story.

True, but isn't this more relevant when things are centrally produced than when (for example, Geman ODM) they are made by any old jeweler with no particular concern for details and specifications beyond general appearance.

[redcross]

I like weights, even if I haven't found them very useful

and I wonder how many people have accurate scales,

probably less than those who have blacklights

which I find more useful, as there seem to be

a number of people putting together "old" ribbon bars & medal groups

Edited September 17, 2007 by redcross

[Paul C]

I do find weights and measurements to be very useful. The Hessenthal and Schreiber books gives excate measurements. Also what I find equally important is the combination of medals or ribbons. They "should" make sense. If they don't then it is a real rarity or fakes. I have gotten to the point where I don't buy a medal bar unless I have at least a 75% chance of tracing it. As for ribbon bars, which are much less expensive and harder to trace, I usually give myself some leaway. This is just my 2 cents.

[Ulsterman]

True, but isn't this more relevant when things are centrally produced than when (for example, Geman ODM) they are made by any old jeweler with no particular concern for details and specifications beyond general appearance.

yes-but also, this allows us to compare with known "marked" pieces.

[Stogieman]

The posting a of a fake item without specifying why is usually meant to incite discussion and allow you to measure your eye and gain the experience of attempting to disect what's wrong and evaluate the item as a learning experience. If you don't learn how to do this, how will you grow as a collector?

The purpose (on my part anyway) is to not just to educate with "this is wrong because...", but about allowing you to develop your own methodology and eye for discerning what is real and what is not.

[Wild Card]

The posting a of a fake item without specifying why is usually meant to incite discussion and allow you to measure your eye and gain the experience of attempting to disect what's wrong and evaluate the item as a learning experience. If you don't learn how to do this, how will you grow as a collector?

The purpose (on my part anyway) is to not just to educate with "this is wrong because...", but about allowing you to develop your own methodology and eye for discerning what is real and what is not.

Well put, Stogie. Thank you -

Wild Card

[Brian Wolfe]

The posting a of a fake item without specifying why is usually meant to incite discussion and allow you to measure your eye and gain the experience of attempting to disect what's wrong and evaluate the item as a learning experience. If you don't learn how to do this, how will you grow as a collector?

The purpose (on my part anyway) is to not just to educate with "this is wrong because...", but about allowing you to develop your own methodology and eye for discerning what is real and what is not.

So true Stogieman. I once purchased an Air Crew Europe Star for such a low price I knew it had to be a copy even before the dealer informed me that it was. For a long time I had to content myself that it was a copy only because I was told it was so. Finally a well known dealer told me how to tell the fake from the real deal and pointed out the differences. That's the difference between a well educated collector and someone blindly accepting an unsupported opinion. It's the old, give a man a fish or teach how to catch his own.

Oh, I guess that's what you just said!

Cheers

Brian

[Paul C]

Stogieman, I have not thought of it that way and I do agree with you. It is important to learn by doing.