Hindenburg Cross Types

[Guest Rick Research]

A Bremen VARIANT!

Yours is signed "v Hoff" by a deputy (I n V ertretung) of the Senator for Interior Administration and ALL the ones I have ever seen (before) have been signed by the same deputy Dr. Scribble for the Senator of the Interior & Justice. Here is yet another of THAT type:

Do you have any other documents on that guy? LaPo Schule-Leiter H?ne was a career teacher who went into a career Wehrmacht Beamter job, but Herr Jacobs here was an ex-Flamga Vizefeldwebel, a beer truck driver turned roofer, NOT a civil servant, and would spend the war in the SHD Fire Fighting branch, retiring as a 63 year old city fireman under the British occupation.

I can't find the Hamburg "iV" guy, "Kempe." Sometimes I think they were police administrative personnel and not "real" police OFFICERS. Without job titles ...

but then THAT is what makes "autograph sleuthing" so much fun.

But I am astonished twice in the same day to see ANOTHER Widow's Cross document to a RE-MARRIED ex-widow! That is just so... weird. Imagine the pair of them going out all decorated up for a nice sunny Party rally-- him with his

"live" Hindenburg Cross and her.... with her "dead" one!

[Troy Tempest]

Congrats! Are you collecting a certain type?

Hi Paul! I'm collecting all three grades, have so far 26 HKIs, 6 HKIIs and 7 HKIIIs, three urkunde's and am hoping to get my first cased HKI. I also have now 8 EKIIs (imperial) and climbing! I know I have been promising to post photos soon, I have laybyed a digital camera that can focus down to 1cm, I'm going away to my mums for a holiday today for 7-10 days, when I get back to Sydney I'll pick the camera up and start photographing my collection. It now stands at about 120 items. I've posted about 30 on my site, but using the sellers photos, I'll replace them all early next year and post them all here as well.

[jabnus]

Hello Rick,

glad you like them

unfortunately no other documents from him, i do have a bunch of hindenburg medals and matching miniatures and ribbons from the same collector i got them from. (but i think it's all put together later).

Somewhere soon ill make pictures to post in this thread as im expecting a few very rare items to go with these medals the next few days and want my displays finished first. It's about time these medals get better investigated. (nice topic here!)

regards,

Gaston

ps: yes really WEIRD would that have been on that sunny day ...

[jabnus]

and after a 3 min search..., here is a picture from the auction that the certificate and medals came from, no idea if these belonged to the same man or where just collected:

[Guest Rick Research]

Ah, nice set with the different styles and the mini!

Here's one on the 40mm wide Austrian style trifold ribbon:

Made either for a "new German" ex-Austrian 1938+ who was still wearing his awards in the old native way, or for a REALLY OLD old fashioned Saxon.

For the most common German award, this can be found in countless varieties.

Troy: there are no "grades." There is no "I," "II," and "III." There are four TYPES: combatant, participant (non-combatant), and next of kin (subdivided into for parents and for widows). Only the award documents reveal which of the next of kins a loose cross may be, since even if mounted for wear there is no way to tell a "mother" from a "widow" bow--only that a normal parade mounted type went to a "father."

Here's my one lone miniatures chain:

The "Holy Grail," of course, ia a Juncker Hindenburg Cross made out of REAL bronze and not bronzed steel. I've never found one, but I know several of our members have The Rarest Beast.

[jabnus]

Beautiful miniature chain Rick

here's an old picture with some more mini's

Regards,

Gaston

[Guest Rick Research]

Ah, what a treasure trove!

It is INCREDIBLY difficult to find next of kin Hindenburg Crosses mounted in groups, like the pair with Prussian War Effort Cross at top center.

[TerryG]

I agree! With the great variety of maker marks, I can definitely see this as a very rewarding area for focus!

Paul

don't forget the cases...

Edited December 31, 2007 by TerryG

[TerryG]

and ...

[jabnus]

Terry, that last case of yours is very rare? I have never seen it?

It looks more square? (also a green inlay?)

Any maker marks?

regards,

Gaston

[TerryG]

Thanks for the comments Gaston. No maker's mark as far as I can recall (it is in a safe place with the rest of the collection at present so I cannot check it). I like it too.

[Bayoswede]

Hi all!

I just love the Ehrenkreuzes, they are cheap but wonderful and the award papers gives a lot of information to research!

Here is mine "black cross" + Red Cross award

I will show some more papers to!

Christer

Edited December 31, 2007 by Bayoswede

[Bayoswede]

And here is the backside

A civilian? Green colour

More to come !

Christer

[Bayoswede]

Here is one of the " Anfrage " papers

This paper is for the Combat and non Combat crosses

I wonder where all theese papers went, To some Archive? Haven?t seen to many of theese through the years.

Chris

[Bayoswede]

And here is the other Document for Parents and Widows

Blank, someone having one of theese filled in?

Chris

[Bayoswede]

And a very late one ?

Honor Cross for Parents issued in 1941

How long did where this crosses issued? I have another one issued in 1940 but this is the latset I seen so far

Chris

[Bayoswede]

And last one for now !

Especially for Rick !

Another Bremen Cross ! Maybe we can make a small Bremen collection in this thread.....

Here is the same stamp "senator Inner & Justice"

Chris

And of course A HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL !

Christer

[Bayoswede]

Hi again, just one more thing befor we all opens up the Champagne bottles....

Does anyone knows how many know makers there is of the Honor Crosses?

I have about 114 different markings noted , but I iam quite sure the real number is far higher

I have to count my different medals but I think I have about 30 by different makers so I am not among the big boys there.

Chris

[Guest Rick Research]

Nice toi see those Antr?ge Chris-- I think they were returned to the applicant. Most must have been thrown away. Who needed one after the Urkunde and Cross came?

Where was Kaplitz?

I've heard that awards were extended as far as 1943/44 for Austrians from the South Tyrol--part of Italy until after Mussolini fell and then absorbed into the Reich.

I am thinking that rows and rows and rows, across and down, of close ups of the maker marks, all made to the same size scale and numbered in the corner of each one

would not only be neat looking, but might make a really good chart.

Since the ones I have are mounted on medal bars, I can't get good reverse shots-- so I excuse myself from all that work.

[Bayoswede]

Hi,

To answer Ricks question about Kaplitz I cancelled my New Years celebration and went google instead

well not really, the clock in Sweden now shows 11.oo tuesday.

I found Kaplitz and to my suprise it was named Kaplice before 1938 when Germany walked in and renamed it Kaplitz

It was Sudeten in German, so this is where one of the so vcalled "flower-medals" came from

Another interesting papaer from a common medal.

Chris

[Bayoswede]

Hallo!

I thought about Ricks words about making a database of the Honor cross markings. So I played with my scanner for a couple of minutes and

here is the result, maybe it could look like this , a little practice and I think we could make a fantastic reference library of makers

number 3 is non combatant and the others are Black crosses for Parents and Widows 300 dpi and 400 dpi

Chris

Edited January 1, 2008 by Bayoswede

[jabnus]

The idea of finally making a structured list for these medals is great, however, how to make it a nice and easy to overview list?

Posting big pictures of all makers' backsides sure is big help, but in the end we would want a easy to work with list.

I would suggest the following:

A sort of excell database with columns, The first column would contain in alphabetical order the names of the makers, second column their maker marks, third column a thumbnailpicture with the mark, 4th and 5th column if needed any additional information... If it is possible to link the big sized pictures to the thumbnails this could be become a very nice and workable list. I've been playing with the idea to do this on my internetsite but lacked the time to do so. Maybe now is the time since there seems to be some intererst here?

regards,

Gaston

ps: thinking out loud, by adding more column we could add for example other ribbonmountingstyles, certain maker medal details, etc

[Glenn J]

Where was Kaplitz?

Kaplitz was due South of Budweis in Bohemia. It was of course known as Kaplitz during the period of the A-H Monarchy and is still referred to as such in the 1933 Meyers Handatlas below.

Regards

Glenn

[Bayoswede]

Thanks Jabnus and Glenn!

The village(town) Kaplitz is close to Budweise , some connection with Budweiser Beer? he he

And now I have started a new project , go to http://bayoswede.zoomin.se/index/29788.html

It is not so good-looking but its my first try to list this Honor cross makers, if you have pics of makers I would be most grateful if you would like to share them with me , so I can build up a reference library.

All the best from Sweden

Christer

[TerryG]

Have you this one?