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This half-height ribbon bar has frustrated me for over 20 years.

It came out of a treasure trove in the Hamburg area that contained the vast bulk of my Admirals' ribbon bars (none identified by the seller) and I had been trying to "fit" it to a Marine Infantry officer retreaded for WW2... no luck.

Thanks to Daniel's labours with the insanity of W?rttemberg's WW1 bestowals/returns/re-awards

without which it would be IMPOSSIBLE to figure out who actually WORE what

it has now come down to one of my usual either/or choices =

Generalleutnant Theobald (aka Theo-Helmut) Lieb (1889-1981), who freakishly won a Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross AND the oakleaves, 11 days apart in February 1944 (!)

orrrrrr

Generalleutnant Oskar Schimpf (1885-1948?/1958?).

I find (in my 1958 Keilig) no evidence that Schimpf ever served outside Germany during the war. Lieb's assignments leave the crucial winter of 1941/42 blank, though he seems to have wandered back and forth from combat assignments to city commandant jobs with odd regularity (wounded?)

The "problem" is that BOTH of them had an ?M3K!!!

So IF this is the top row of two rows, that SHOULD be slid in there ahead of the Hindenburg Cross. Unless whatever else he had "balanced out" better by keeping the Austro-Hungarian award back with the foreign stuff in pre-1938 precedence. That turns up enough to be odd, but by no means uncommon.

Did Lieb serve in Russia over the winter of 1941/42?

I've had a long string of lack of success with the Biblio Generals' biography portraits-- but does he actually SHOW his ribbon bar in his portrait?

Schimpf hasn't reached Biblio's glacial alphabetical publishing schedule yet (sometimes I despair of living that long :banger: ) but when did he actually die, since I have two year dates--one of which must be a typo.

Nobody else matches up with the combination of WM3 and a WF3aX (Schimpf) or WF3bX (Lieb).

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Many thanks! :cheers: Interesting that SCHIMPF did indeed keep the pre-1938 precedence, so if LIEB did as well..... :jumping::jumping::jumping:

Wow, how unexpected is it for Schimpf's ribbn bars to show up on this thread. The collectors on this forum are AMAZING to me...

I just hope to someday have a bar with WM3 and a WFaX combo.

Rick, what does the revese look like?

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Individual ribbons metal tab backs on a backing plate style. Rusty and icky. Because the half-height bar is so D shaped in profile, it kept rolling on me,and you would not believe how hard it was to get most of the curved to fit wreath to show. Didn't even try the back for the same reason.

Lieb had the Gold Military Merit Medal first, which he haad to turn in when he got his military Merit Order-Knight. So he was decorated 3 times... and got to wear 2. W?rttemberg was insane. :speechless:

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Sometimes a "short version" was worn as a fashion choice, but usually this is a case of where two rows were worn, because one normal row was too long.

This is how Luftwaffe Generalstabsarzt Professor Dr.med. et phil. Ernst Koschel (1875-1961) wore his:

so I am presuming a similar set-up with the lower row of Lieb's gone astray long ago. He had Wehrmacht 25 and 12, the ?M3K, possibly 1 or 2 of the 1938 "flowers" campaign medals and possibly other stuff like the ex-WW1 Central Powers Commemorative Medals.

Since he's badly frost-bitten (how in God's name did he keep that monocle in place? :speechless1: ) and wearing a furry cap but NO ribbon bar in that splendid color photo, still have no clue what else would have rounded out a lower row.

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Generalleutnant Theobald (aka Theo-Helmut) Lieb (1889-1981), who freakishly won a Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross AND the oakleaves, 11 days apart in February 1944 (!)

I find (in my 1958 Keilig) no evidence that Schimpf ever served outside Germany during the war. Lieb's assignments leave the crucial winter of 1941/42 blank, though he seems to have wandered back and forth from combat assignments to city commandant jobs with odd regularity (wounded?)

Did Lieb serve in Russia over the winter of 1941/42?

Schimpf hasn't reached Biblio's glacial alphabetical publishing schedule yet (sometimes I despair of living that long :banger: ) but when did he actually die, since I have two year dates--one of which must be a typo.

KC and oakleaves for the "Lion of Cherkassy" Lieb, who crossed a river during the Cherkassy battle "swimming alongside his horse" (back is rusty??... :P ) . And according to his bios entry, he was "acting leader" of the 290. Inf-Div from Sep to Nov 1941 in Russia.

Schimpf, according to his entry on the "Special Camp 11" pages, died 1958 in Wiesbaden.

Edited by webr55
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  • 2 years later...

Here's one more, apparently to the same wearer, but with the order of awards massively screwed up.

Did a picture of Lieb wearing a ribbon bar pop up in the meantime?

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  • 10 years later...
On 02/04/2010 at 14:43, saschaw said:

Did a picture of Lieb wearing a ribbon bar pop up in the meantime?

Something new, in the past ten years? It would be great to see him wear such a bar in two rows...

:whistle:

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