Chris Boonzaier Posted December 2, 2007 Posted December 2, 2007 I saw this link on WAF, thought some of the folks who are not there would find it interesting and terrible at the same time....http://www.stuff.co.nz/4306566a10.htmlWhat a blow to a nations heritage...
Ed_Haynes Posted December 2, 2007 Posted December 2, 2007 (edited) This is incredibly disturbing!Sounds like a theft-to-order of items that could never be sold.Thanks for posting this, Chris, although I wish it hadn't happened. Edited December 2, 2007 by Ed_Haynes
Great Dane Posted December 2, 2007 Posted December 2, 2007 Posted this in another forum and would like to repeat it here (to keep the hopes up...):Chances are that the thieves are just plain stupid.Whenever a 'museum piece' of considerable value is stolen (be it medals, paintings, jewels etc) the theory of the 'evil collector' comes up, but according to authorities (at least here in Denmark) this is very rarely the case and is more a Hollywood thing...In 9 of 10 cases the thieves are just plain stupid and think that everything that glistens is gold and can be sold off easily.In the last couple of years we had the Order of the Elephant dies stolen and a targeted robbery for a Rembrandt painting from a museum. Both cases were solved and in both cased the thieves had absolutely no idea what they had stolen.../Mike
Kev in Deva Posted December 2, 2007 Posted December 2, 2007 (edited) Medals taken include:* Samuel Frickleton, VC -- WW1* Leslie Andrew, VC -- WW1* Randolph Ridling, Albert Medal -- WW1* Reginald Judson, VC, DCM, MM -- WW1* John Grant, VC -- WW1* Harry Laurent, VC -- WW1* Jack Hinton, VC -- WW2* Clive Hulme, VC -- WW2* Keith Elliott, VC -- WW2* Charles Upham, VC and Bar -- WW2* David Russell, GC -- WW2* Ken Hudson, GC.I would say this was a well planned robbery, not much of an alarm system in use, if all they can say:Museum staff discovered that several displays had been broken into, after the alarm was activated in an annex to the building sometime between midnight and 6am.thats possibly giving the thieves a 5 hour head start!!!!Families plea for return of Stolen Medals.http://www.stuff.co.nz/4307217a10.htmlKevin in Deva Edited December 2, 2007 by Kev in Deva
Guest Rick Research Posted December 2, 2007 Posted December 2, 2007 Speechless.Again-- this simply illustrates the folly of "donating" treasure to places which are not safe, run by people who do not care.Unsalable...leaving us all to wonder--thrown in the garbage in a rubbish bag, destroyed so the sub-cretins (watching TV, since they probably can't read) don't get caught...or winging their way to Happy Putinia for some giggling nutjob James Bond villain-wannabe's rumpus room?PLEASE keep us posted on developments.This is national treason, not burglary.
geoff Posted December 2, 2007 Posted December 2, 2007 Hi, I would just like to echo everybody else's comments and concern's on this thread.......I am totally shocked!!! Yes it's treason! and can only have been carried out to order.......I truley hope those responsible will be caught and the medals returned, somebody out there knows who did it and it will only be a matter of time, keeping my fingers crossed it's soon.Best regardsGeoff
JimZ Posted December 2, 2007 Posted December 2, 2007 They're bound to turn up somewhere some day.... one can only hope that they do and that when (really if) they do, heads will roll. Till then this is a loss of such magnitude that one can hardly find words for.Jim
PKeating Posted December 3, 2007 Posted December 3, 2007 Sadly, it looks as if they were stolen to order for someone. It does not sound like a burglary carried out by moronic trash who will throw them in the river when they find out that they can't offload them. This sort of thing was rife in the late 1970s and early 1980s in the UK. A lot of regimental museums were targeted, as were national museums like the IWM and National Army Museum. And some of the UK's top dealers and brokers fenced the goods. The internet has made it harder for thefts-on-spec, as it were, but there is still scope for professionals stealing-to-order for collectors who will keep the stuff for private enjoyment for evermore, as they don't need the money. PK
leigh kitchen Posted December 5, 2007 Posted December 5, 2007 And unlike some other stolen property, there's little chance these will turn up on ebay.Theft for financial profit, the secret, guilty pleasure of hiding away in a little dark room & cuddling & stroking the awards, or to make a statement of some kind?
ccj Posted January 1, 2008 Posted January 1, 2008 I agree with Rick, no reason to donate items to museums. I have heard horror stories as you all have about items being stolen, lost, misplaced, etc. These are already in a collection by now. Ed is right, the job was commisioned...
Ed Maroli Posted January 15, 2008 Posted January 15, 2008 Over the last several years I've had the pleasure of watching the the German pilots manequin at the USAF museum in Dayton, Ohio slowly lose its original badges to be replaced by fakes. One badge each year. ~Ed
Kev in Deva Posted January 15, 2008 Posted January 15, 2008 Dear Ed Maroli, why would you take pleasure in such a theft of museum propertyand as such the history in these pieces being removed.Better yet why have you not reported this if you know it is taking place Kevin in Deva.
PKeating Posted January 15, 2008 Posted January 15, 2008 I think he is probably deploying irony, Kevin. Mind you, many museums are guilty of theft themselves and the contents of most museums are heavily seeded with stolen goods. As for swapping genuine items for fakes, this was endemic in the Imperial War Museum in London as I was coming of age. The staff often aided and abetted when not doing it themselves. Such things went on in plenty of military museums, public and private. There was a theft on one occasion from a regimental museum in London and one of the groups that disappeared contained an example of one of the handful of GSMs with the Northern Kurdistan clasp awarded to Army personnel. Very, very rare and sought after. It ended up in the private collection of a very dodgy fellow - now dead - who bought it from a very posh London dealer with royal warrants all over their letterheads. This dealer was the first port of call for anyone with high end items of 'broken provenance', as the pinstriped gents there used to say with exaggerated winks. Many major dealers knowingly bought stolen gear, making museum theft viable. It is not as bad now as it was, thanks to the internet and the speed of exchange of information, but I am reliably informed that it still goes on. In short, lending or bequeathing things to museums is not the surest way of securing their future, as the theft of the New Zealand VCs reminds us. The thieves were probably acting to order and probably had inside help. And then, on the other end of the spectrum, there is the story of Pun VC and the Gurkha regimental museum. The museum still has his VC but it has been mooted that many of the valuable items in the museum's possession were put up as collateral against financing to develop ideas with a commercial potential to make the museum self-financing in the face of cuts in grants and so on. If they believed they owned it, fine. But the disturbing aspect of that story is the apparent failure on the part of the museum to produce documentary evidence to support their claim that Pun VC gave or sold them the medal. In the end, it seems, the most reliable custodians of historical artefacts, particularly in our field, would appear to be private collectors. PK
Ed Maroli Posted January 15, 2008 Posted January 15, 2008 The bit about "the pleasure" was meant to sarcastic. I appologize if that was not apparent to all those who would of read my post. As for the reporting of the theft, I believe the curator was caught trying to sell a $30,000 piece of US goverment property. This happened 5-7 years ago. ~Ed
Ed Maroli Posted January 15, 2008 Posted January 15, 2008 Now that I'm thinking of it. I think the curator was caught in 2003 . It was the 100 year anniversary of the kitty hawk flight and when the goverment went looking for the engine block mold, it and many other items were missing. ~Ed
Ed Maroli Posted January 15, 2008 Posted January 15, 2008 (edited) I know this is long, but read this and understand why things should never go to museums.WRIGHT-PATTERSON AIR FORCE BASE | By thievery, carelessness, or both,America is losing artifacts of its aviation heritage.The United States Air Force Museum once stored the aging wooden patternused to cast the engine that enabled aviation pioneers Wilbur and OrvilleWright to achieve the first powered flight in 1903.It's missing.Ten artifacts, ranging from camp regulations to a notebook, entrusted tothe museum from survivors of World War II prisoner-of-war camps.Also missing.Bombs, bomb fuses, guns, a "urine collection device" from the Apolloprogram and a camera lens from the Gemini space program.Missing as well.A March 21, 2002, audit of the museum by the Wright-Patterson Area AuditOffice, obtained by the Dayton Daily News, reported that 1,000 items couldnot be located. Auditors concluded the museum's personnel "did not alwayseffectively manage museum property."It's not just carelessness, it's theft, said Albert Harris Jr., a formermuseum worker who says he was punished when he blew the whistle."We witnessed, we watched it, we complained about it," said Harris, whonow works at the base library. "Thousands of artifacts are missing."Investigators dismissed Harris' early complaints. But a later probe led tothe federal indictment this year of the museum's former chief ofcollections, charged with selling an armored vehicle that he knew had beenstolen from the museum.The artifacts' disappearance from the Air Force Museum, the world's oldestand largest military aviation museum with 2 million visitors a year, iscoming to light as the community celebrates 100 years of aviation historyand the museum is erecting huge new buildings to hold its burgeoningcollection.Maj. Gen. Charles Metcalf, the museum's director, said the number ofmissing items has been reduced to 510.Noting the museum maintains more than 57,000 items, Metcalf says, "This isa low error rate for a collection this size."But numbers alone don't tell the story.Ken Hyde of Warrenton, Va., recalled borrowing the engine pattern for theWright Flyer several years ago to make three engines, including one heplaced in his reproduction of the 1903 Wright Flyer."They're priceless," Hyde said of the missing items.According to the museum, the engine mold was deaccessioned (removed fromactive inventory) to a restoration collection in 1997, and was reportedmissing in January 2001.Donald E. Kirby, 81, of Columbus, said the missing prisoner-of-war itemsrepresented the men and women who were reduced to German property."I think any child looking at that would at least think that was kind ofimportant," said Kirby, who was held in a German POW camp for 18 monthsduring World War II. "That (artifact) was the person right there."The official list of missing items also appears incomplete.Three Russian-made 23 mm anti-aircraft cannons that auditors reportedmissing in March 2002 are not on the list."These guns have not been located," the museum confirmed, and "in allprobability were turned into the Defense Reutilization/Marketing Office. .. . However, full documentation has not been found to support thisaction."Nine other weapons that auditors could not account for also remainmissing, according to the museum, and the effort to identify them "hasbeen inconclusive."The list also does not include the the Wright brothers' engine pattern.Also confirmed missing, but not on the list, is a reproduction of theCongressional Gold Medal awarded to the Wright brothers in 1909. Theoriginal medal is at Wright State University.Metcalf conceded that missing deaccessioned items, such as the Wrightbrothers' engine pattern and medal, are not included among the 510 missingitems.Asked how many items might be missing among the deaccessioned, Metcalfreplied, "We don't have a clue," citing unreliable paperwork."Two days ago, we found items that had been missing and they had beenshipped to a museum in Michigan and they're there," he said in a recentinterview. "But the records have not been updated."Rules in place, but not followedThe audit is not the first of its kind.A June 5, 1996, audit report determined "museum personnel did notadequately manage the acquisition, registration and documentation ofweapons" or "establish accountability of historical property within 24hours of receipt."The 2002 audit says the person most responsible for the missing items isthe museum's former chief of collections, whom auditors said disposed ofmuseum property while bypassing required oversight. Scott A. Ferguson, theformer chief of collections, is under indictment in U.S. District Court,charged with selling an armored vehicle in 1999, knowing it had beenstolen from the museum in 1996."It's quite obvious if you have a leak at that level, you could lose yourshirt before you knew it," retired Air Force Col. Richard L. Uppstrom, themuseum's civilian director from 1985 to 1996, said of the indictment.The audit cites an Air Force instruction, signed by Metcalf on Nov. 25,1996, that states, "No donated items of historic property of any type(hardware, documentation, photographic, etc.) will be disposed of in anymanner without first being reviewed by the division responsible for theitems and approved for disposition by the Deaccession Committee."After Deaccession Committee approval, the director and curator must bothsign an Inventory Adjustment Voucher (IAV) prepared by CollectionsDivision personnel," the instruction notes.Asked about claims that the committee had not met for years prior to the2002 audit, Metcalf replied that the committee "is not a 'committee' inthe traditional sense. It is a body of individuals who providerecommendations and oversight of proposed deaccessions through a formalcoordination process."Though this process has been in place dating back to at least November1996, records of committee coordination prior to 2001, during the tenureof the previous collection chief (Ferguson) do not exist. Paperworkindicates deaccessioned items did not go through proper approval process,having been signed off unilaterally by the collection chief responsible atthe time."Chief of collections had little supervisionA list prepared by the museum shows thousands of items, ranging fromjackets and ribbons to trucks and aircraft, were deaccessioned duringFerguson's tenure. Any records regarding oversight of this process, ifthey existed, are nowhere to be found.The chief of collections operated without much supervision, the auditorsnoted.Their review of 123 inventory adjustment vouchers, used to documentremoval of museum property, found that 122 lacked proper authorization anddocumentation, with some "signed by unauthorized personnel."The lack of proper documentation, auditors concluded, "occurred becausethe chief of collections did not follow established guidance andprocedures for the disposition of historical property."This situation went undetected because USAFM (Air Force Museum) personnelhad not established procedures for periodic internal reviews ofdeaccession transactions."Specifically," auditors noted, "the chief of collections couldunilaterally complete and authorize IAVs, complete transfer papers,package items for disposition and record association inventoryadjustments."Auditors make no specific mention of Metcalf or what he did to enforce the1996 instruction he signed regarding removal of museum inventory.The museum, in a written response to questions from the Daily News,concedes that "responsible management procedures and policies have alwaysbeen in place, but unfortunately not always followed. When reviewsindicated that problems existed, the museum took proper action byrequesting the investigations and audits that ultimately led to thecurrent criminal charges."Since 2001, Metcalf said, the deaccession process "has been stringentlyadhered to" and now requires quarterly review by the Materiel CommandHistory Office.The museum denied the Daily News access to the museum's records, sayingthat releasing information regarding the identity of people who obtainedmuseum property would violate the Privacy Act.Soon after he became director in December 1996, Metcalf said in aninterview, he ordered Ferguson to "cease and desist" from selling militaryitems at gun and militaria shows.Militaria are military collectibles, whose collectors buy everything fromradiation detectors and Marine swords to gas masks, Civil War bullets,armored vehicles and aircraft.Metcalf said he also told Ferguson that he "wanted him to disassociatehimself" from a man who often exchanged items with the museum and was amuseum contractor."It was one of those relationships, even if it was good, that gave you theperception of not good," Metcalf said.Whistleblower reduced to washing hospital dishesThen came warnings from Albert Harris Jr., a former materials handler atthe museum who says the reported losses, often from thefts, don't begin toscratch the surface.The U.S. Office of Special Counsel (OSC) confirms Harris reported hissuspicions about Ferguson in 1997 ? Harris said it was as early as 1993that he reported his suspicions of thefts to his supervisor.The OSC is an independent federal investigative and prosecution agencythat protects federal employees from reprisal for whistleblowing.Harris said that shortly after he was interviewed by the Office of SpecialInvestigations (OSI), the Air Force's major investigative service, he wasretaliated against when his position was eliminated.Harris said he was reduced to washing dishes at the base hospital after heclaimed to investigators that Ferguson was involved in the thefts.In addition to thefts of artifacts at the museum, Harris said he sawpeople cart off, before they were logged into the museum's inventory,artifacts shipped to the museum from satellite museums during baseclosings.The museum confirmed that "logs have been and are being compared andinconsistencies are being resolved" regarding this claim.Highly collectible items go missingIn an Oct. 3, 2001, statement to the OSI, Harris described severalincidents involving museum property.Harris stated, for example, that on a late Friday afternoon sometimearound 1996, Ferguson asked him to help him remove an M-60 machine gunmounted on a helicopter because Metcalf said historically it didn't belongon that copter.After they removed the M-60, Harris said, Ferguson "told me that it waslate and he was not going to the vault (where guns are stored) and he putthe M-60 in his office."Harris said it hasn't been seen since.Metcalf confirmed Aug. 14 that he ordered the gun removed, but had notheard Harris' claim of it being placed in Ferguson's office "until fivedays ago."Harris, however, reported this in his Oct. 3, 2001, statement to OSIinvestigators.A museum restoration employee, who asked not to be identified, said he sawFerguson and Harris remove the machine gun from the helicopter and thoughtit strange because this was work normally "done by the restorationdivision."Metcalf said it was not possible to determine if the M-60 removed from thehelicopter is the same one that's missing because "there is no register ofwhat gun was taken out of the vault and put on" the helicopter."We don't know what that (M-60) went on, don't know what it came offbecause the paperwork was not prepared in collections," Metcalf said.A source close to Ferguson, who asked not to be identified, said the M-60is now mounted on an armored vehicle at the museum.Metcalf conceded the paper trail created by Ferguson's office is oftencompletely unreliable.Paperwork has shown items removed from inventory that are still in themuseum.Other records show "things that were certified as destroyed and they wereexchanged with a foreign government," Metcalf said.And he pulled out a document to show some paperwork is postdated ?recording, years after it occurred, a truck's disposal."The people who work in collections, along with the senior leadership,absolutely feel violated," Metcalf said.The museum was violated as well, Harris said.On one occasion, Harris said, he and another employee visited the "vault"where guns, swords, knives and other items are stored."It looked like a hurricane hit it," Harris said. "I was shocked. Stuffwas pulled out all over the floor."Among items missing from the museum are guns, swords and knives ? itemsnormally stored in the museum's vault.Harris said drawers full of pins and medals also disappeared: "They wereauthentic. Not that replica crap."Authentic World War II Nazi and Allied memorabilia, Harris said, are inhigh demand at gun and militaria shows.Harris said OSI investigators didn't bother to accompany him to the scenesof the disappearances when he reported them.Metcalf said the OSC probe "found no correlation between the disclosureabout Scott Ferguson and any adverse action" against Harris.The museum eliminated three positions and "appropriate personnelprocedures were followed to place Mr. Harris in a position for which hequalified," Metcalf said.Claims of thefts deemed 'insufficient'The OSC probe cleared Ferguson in 1999 of Harris' claims of theft. Thatwas about the time Ferguson was selling an armored vehicle that a grandjury's indictment said was stolen in 1996 from the museum."To our knowledge, the investigations were complete," Metcalf said in awritten response to Daily News questions.Travis Elliott, the OSC's acting director for congressional and publicaffairs, said the OSC inquiry determined only whether Harris' claimsshould be investigated. He said the OSC determined that they wereinsufficient to warrant such a probe."The allegations have to be specific and sufficient in order for us torefer it for investigation," Elliott said.In a letter dated July 8, 1999, the OSC advised Harris that Ferguson hadbeen cleared of "your allegations of theft" and that Harris was notentitled to whistleblower protection."Although you may have had a reasonable belief that at the very least Mr.Ferguson was not following agency regulations for the transport of museumartifacts, the evidence showed that you did not disclose your beliefregarding the incidents in 1993 and 1994 to anyone until August 1997,after the decision was made to abolish your position," the letter states.The OSC conceded in the letter that Harris' position was abolished afterhe spoke with investigators."Additionally, although the timing of the decision to surplus yourposition came relatively soon after your first OSI interview, there was noevidence that Mr. Ferguson was angry with you because you spoke to the OSIinvestigator, or that he believed you had accused him of theft," theletter states.The OSC also found Ferguson's discipline of Harris was reasonable."Given the past problems you had with leave and overtime and the fact thatMr. Ferguson counseled you on the appropriate leave procedures to followsix days before the last AWOL charge, his action does not appear to beunreasonable or linked to any protected activity," the letter states. "Theevidence showed that your problems with leave and overtime began as earlyas January 1997, before you had engaged in any protected activity(reported his suspicions)."Elliott said Harris can hire an attorney and file a case with the MeritProtection Board if he disagrees with the OSC determination.Harris said he is meeting with an attorney to see what action he can file.Harris said he committed no wrongdoing and his transfer left a clearmessage to other museum employees:"You cause trouble, you rock the boat, you follow Al," he said of himself."And where did Al go? To the kitchen."?A lot on our plate'Within months after Ferguson was cleared of Harris' claims in 1999, aresearcher at the museum discovered some items missing and reported thisto then-registrar Krysta Strider, who is now chief of collections.Strider said she reported the missing items to Metcalf.She said a voucher executed by Ferguson showed that 85 items ? helmets,daggers, pennants, goggles ? were sent to the National Air IntelligenceCenter."We called the individual they were supposed to go to and he said he onlyhad 11 items," Metcalf said.Metcalf said he ordered all 85 items returned by both Ferguson and thecenter.Asked if this happened other times, Metcalf replied, "Perhaps it did."As for why it took so long to discover irregularities related toFerguson's records, Metcalf said, "We had a lot on our plate at thattime.""In this hierarchy, I had a curator who was responsible for that(supervising Ferguson)," Metcalf said. "What's he doing? You have to relyon an organization to function."Once the curator was removed "out of the direct line," Metcalf said "theheat started increasing" and Ferguson "asked to be allowed to step asideto another job" at the museum.On Feb. 1, 2001, Ferguson became an acting supervisor in the museum'sresearch division.Charles G. Worman, the museum's former curator, said if Metcalf had aproblem with his supervision of Ferguson, "he never told me about it.""If he wants to use me as a scapegoat, fine," Worman said of Metcalf.Worman noted he received a commendation medal, primarily for getting themuseum accredited, prior to his retirement in 2000.The critical audit followed the incident regarding the 85 items thattriggered the OSI investigation leading to Ferguson's indictment.Harris said this would have come much sooner had his warnings been heeded.For nearly a year, Harris has been trying to get the OSC to give himrecords related to his case so he can show he made his claims long before1997.But in an Oct. 9, 2002, letter to Harris, the OSC states that its Freedomof Information Act officer left in July, causing a delay in response. "Weare recruiting a replacement as quickly as possible."The OSC gave the Daily News a virtually identical response when itrequested the same files more than six months later on April 18.Museum employees contacted by the Daily News about the museum's missingitems said they have been instructed to not talk to the media.While not agreeing with Harris on every point, one employee said bebelieves Harris, who worked at the museum from 1985 to 1997, "got a rawdeal in the way they dismissed him."Harris said the museum remains "a world class" place where he is proud totake his relatives.But he said it has also lost "a lot of history. They want to keep itquiet. They want to keep me quiet. They don't want this out."On the contrary, Metcalf said the museum plans to assure donors who call atelephone number ? (800) 881-5733 ? that "they, too, have not beenviolated.""The donors to the museum, our lifeblood, can rest assured that theirproperty is still here and secure," he said.Contact Wes Hills at 225-2261.[From the Dayton Daily News: 08.24.2003]_________________________________ Edited January 15, 2008 by Ed Maroli
Ed Maroli Posted January 15, 2008 Posted January 15, 2008 Here is his punishment from his appeal. ~Edhttp://www.ca6.uscourts.gov/opinions.pdf/06a0286p-06.pdf
Ed_Haynes Posted January 15, 2008 Posted January 15, 2008 Interesting, maybe, but WAAAYYYYY The basic point about museums still stands, I think, internationally?
Brian Wolfe Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 A sad and shocking story.I will not go on a rant regarding museums, however (and he rambled on for pages), far too often items are donated that end up being surplus. Even items we would consider fairly scarce. Duplicate items are quite often stored away to be cataloged at a later date and forgotten. Forgotten that is until someone decides to "liberate" them.I'd rather see medals in the hands of the private collector and featured on a forum such as this. Museums serve their purpose, don't get me wrong, but if I were to donate my humble collection it would be relegated to a box in the basement and never seen again. At least I bore our friends and family with my collection every chance I get. Cheers Brian
PKeating Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 I don't understand Ed Haynes' "off topic" remark. Everything posted here strikes me as very much on-topic. PK
Ed_Haynes Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 (edited) I don't understand Ed Haynes' "off topic" remark. Everything posted here strikes me as very much on-topic. PKI'm sure you don't, Prosper. I'm sure you don't. Quite sure. And quite unsurpirsed.Based on your boundless expertise, tell me what in the world a minor theft from the US Air Force Museum has to do with a theft of major items in New Zealand?This important thread has been so far perverted that it is almost worth no longer caring about it?A shame, a shame. Edited January 16, 2008 by Ed_Haynes
Chris Boonzaier Posted January 16, 2008 Author Posted January 16, 2008 Having no dog in this fight and assuming the whole thing is "Just for interest" as none will be offering them to me for sale...I would say the one central theme is..... don't let your stuff out of your hands.... unless you are selling it....
PKeating Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 Let me rephrase: I do not understand the logic of your remark although I understand the meaning and intent. A discussion about the stolen New Zealand VCs is bound to evolve into related discussion because there have been no new developments in the case. Conversation is an organic thing. Ed Maroli has not "perverted" anything. You can bring the conversation back around to the New Zealand Stolen VC Affair but there is no need to to be unpleasant about it. PK
Ed Maroli Posted February 17, 2008 Posted February 17, 2008 (edited) FOUNDhttp://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story....jectid=10492853 Edited February 17, 2008 by Ed Maroli
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