David Gregory Posted November 1, 2005 Posted November 1, 2005 This Z?hringer L?we 2nd class with swords lives next to an EK2 marked S-W.[attachmentid=14602]
David Gregory Posted November 1, 2005 Posted November 1, 2005 The bar from the back.[attachmentid=14604]
David Gregory Posted November 1, 2005 Posted November 1, 2005 Any clues as to the age of the Z?hringer L?we? A comparison of the centre suggests that it is "cheaper" than others seen in other threads.Front detail:[attachmentid=14606]
David Gregory Posted November 1, 2005 Posted November 1, 2005 For anyone who has not handled on of these before, this side view shows how chunky they are.[attachmentid=14608]
Blitz Posted November 1, 2005 Posted November 1, 2005 It does look funny to me too. The painting in the obverse and the lion in the reverse aren't what I would describe to be normal. The arms also look odd to me. It could be a maker that hasn't been in the spotlight before and manufactured during ww1. If not, it could be made in the 20s or the 30s as a replacement. I've seen a few modern made replicas and they are far worse than this, so I wouldn't place them in the same category. So to me it's either a wartime piece from a maker seldom seen, or a interwar years replacement.If I had to choose, I'd say it's the latter. But I've seen enough not to make judgements based on different and cheaper looks.
Stogieman Posted November 2, 2005 Posted November 2, 2005 Hi David, I agree with Antti....... that's a very odd and unusual piece...... where did this one show up??
David Gregory Posted November 3, 2005 Posted November 3, 2005 I bought it at a show in Germany, but I can't remember where (I have the details on file). The seller had a lot of common Baden items and a good selection from the other Imperial states. He suggested it was a late-war piece or Spangenst?ck and other collectors who have examined it in hand feel it is OK. After comparing it with one of the cheap G?de copies and a rather poor quality version that looked OK on both sides from a distance, but didn't stand up to closer scrutiny, I feel it is either a late-war piece as described, or perhaps a Spangenst?ck from the inter-war period. It displays the sort of wear that suggests that it was worn more than once. Considering the ease with which awards can be swapped around with this type of medal bar and the fact that the bar seems to be in better condition than the Z?hringer L?we, I suspect the order was added to it more recently.It is not the nicest example I have ever seen, but I am happy with it (or will be unless someone definitely identifies it as bad).David
Stogieman Posted November 3, 2005 Posted November 3, 2005 The odd thing is the reverse chiffre looks darn near perfect, while the body looks rather cheap/cast....
dond Posted December 9, 2005 Author Posted December 9, 2005 Here is another one for opinions and comments.ThanksDon
Sal Williams Posted December 9, 2005 Posted December 9, 2005 OZL is the prettiest hands down!! Don't be fooled by all the excess bells and whistles on the others guy, elegance class unique materials,... it's the OZL!!Don! ANOTHER????!!! Just moments ago I was in the lead then i was neck and neck and now im a straggler???? Beautiful!
dond Posted December 9, 2005 Author Posted December 9, 2005 OZL is the prettiest hands down!! Don't be fooled by all the excess bells and whistles on the others guy, elegance class unique materials,... it's the OZL!!Don! ANOTHER????!!! Just moments ago I was in the lead then i was neck and neck and now im a straggler???? Beautiful!Hi Sal, How's CA? I guess you haven't seen my tank badge I posted recently either?Say hi to Sam for me and Merry Christmas to you both.Don
Blitz Posted December 10, 2005 Posted December 10, 2005 (edited) Not bad, allthough it seems to have suffered damage somewhere along the line. Made prolly in the start of 1900s and before ww1. Edited December 10, 2005 by Blitz
Sal Williams Posted December 10, 2005 Posted December 10, 2005 Hi Sal, How's CA? I guess you haven't seen my tank badge I posted recently either?Say hi to Sam for me and Merry Christmas to you both.DonIt just finally got cold here Don! I was on the beach through most of November! I Just saw the LCpab yesterday! I drooled turned green with envy whined and cursed my rotten finances. Thank god it was a pal who got it or I would never have been the same merry Christmas to you too! Come visit us again soon!Antti, Thanks for the Christmas card my friend! Hope you have a great one too!
saschaw Posted August 19, 2006 Posted August 19, 2006 David Gregory's Z?hringer, I'm 100% sure, is not a modern fake or anything like this. I'd rather think it is a replacement, from WWI or some later, maybe 20's or (early, not Frontfigher-Honourcross!) 30's. Probably not a awarded piece in my honest opinion ... Exactly this one has been for some year in my father's collection until he sold it on Ebay.de in 2004, if I remember the date correctly. As he collects different variations, this has been a mistake in my opinion, I've NEVER seen such a piece again. It came from another collector who got this bar with a second, same combination, from a family, so they might have belonged together. The other one is a common, good "1914-1915" well quality piece.
Deruelle Posted August 21, 2006 Posted August 21, 2006 Hi everybody, Very interresting thread. I love the BZ knight cross with oak leaves. My wish : to have BZ3a with oak leaves. I only have in my collection the BZ3bX. have a look.RegardsChristophe
Deruelle Posted August 21, 2006 Posted August 21, 2006 For people who love devices on ribbon bar. I have 2 oakleaves and they are very different. Your comments are welcome.RegardsChristophe
Brian R Posted August 22, 2006 Posted August 22, 2006 Christophe - Nice bars!!I also have an OZL with oakleaves mini to share... an interesting mix of an EK, OZL and Waldeck Verdienstkreuz. I'm pretty sure this belonged to a senior Baden official by the name of Otto Braun. This piece, along with the lapel bow (that also includes an Honor cross), were sold in separate groups on ebay a while back. I had more info on the man and the group but have, unfortuunately, lost it. Can anyone help with tracking down his career? Was he alive after 1934?Thanks,Brian
saschaw Posted August 22, 2006 Posted August 22, 2006 (edited) First of all: You have to much Z?hringer, I want them all ... I also have an OZL with oakleaves mini to share... an interesting mix of an EK, OZL and Waldeck Verdienstkreuz. I'm pretty sure this belonged to a senior Baden official by the name of Otto Braun. This piece, along with the lapel bow (that also includes an Honor cross), were sold in separate groups on ebay a while back. I had more info on the man and the group but have, unfortuunately, lost it. Can anyone help with tracking down his career? Was he alive after 1934?I swear you, these are NOT Otto Braun's ones, but of any of his family. My father has bought some of the Braun stuff, and we have seen ALL of it live. (most awards beeing brought back to the state after death, but still the documents )Otto Braun was awarded things like Baden Z?hringer L?we: Commander's cross 2nd class, Knight's cross 1st class with Oak leaves, Knight's cross 1st class. W?rttemberg Friedrichsorden: Commander's crosses 2nd and 1st class.Prussian Red Eagle order: Cross 2nd class with star, I believe the same with the Prussin crown order. He died before the war, if I remember correctly.His daughter has been married a Dr. Giercke, a later Proffessor in University Heidelberg (my father has the document) who also won a Baden ZL3bElX in WWI (my father has the document, too), so I thougt a long time, that this bar with Baden and Waldeck was his, but he has never been awarded the Waldeck order (but a Centenarmedaille 1897), so it has to be someone elses bar - I don't know who's ... BTW, he also sold some stuff of Otto Braun's father August Braun who received a 1870er EK II on white and black ribbon ... I loved the seller to sell it complete, but he didn't and now it is split and spread all over the world Edited August 22, 2006 by saschaw
Brian R Posted August 23, 2006 Posted August 23, 2006 I found some of the info I had, however, I still can't find it all. The seller on ebay had split up the whole group. Here's some of the description that had been listed...Aus dem Nachlass des Grossherzoglichen Badischen Geheimen Oberregierungsrats und Ministerialdirktors im Ministerium des Innern Otto Braun 1852 - 1906 Stationen: 1878 Amtmann in Pforzheim 1884 Amtsvorstand in Adelsheim 1885 Oberamtmann in Buchen 1889 Oberamtmann in Karlsruhe 1891 Ministerialrat im Ministerium des Innern 1892 Vorsitzender des Gewerbeschulrats 1898 Geheimer Oberregierungsrat 1899 Landeskommissar f?r die Kreise Karlsruhe und Baden 1900 Mitglied des Kompetenzgerichtshofs 1906 Ministerialdirektor im Ministerium des Innern unter Minister Dr. Schenkel
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