dblmed Posted January 24, 2009 Author Posted January 24, 2009 (edited) Reverse of TN GOLD and TN SILVER Visor Sets."Gesc. Gesch." is in lower LEFT of the TN M?tzenkranz, & is one part on each side of the upper edge of the wings of the TN Visor Eagles. ... Txs, Dave/dblmed Edited January 24, 2009 by dblmed
dblmed Posted January 24, 2009 Author Posted January 24, 2009 (edited) ASSMANN CATALOG - for the TN Visor Sets I used the "Reddick" copy of the ASSMANN catalog, and Photoshopped the applicable Metal Visor parts.The ASSMANN catalog states that the TN Kranz (# 24216) was available, either in Silver (Weis Metal, Aluminum), or in Gold (the Goldene Plated Model.)- and -the TN Eagle (#24250) was Also available, either in Silver (Weis Metal, Aluminum), or in Gold (the Goldene Plated Model.)Both are "Gesc. Gesch." by ASSMANN. Fun and interesting stuff! .... Txs, Dave/dblmed Edited January 24, 2009 by dblmed
coldstream Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 Very interesting thread, thank you. This photograph is a recent ebay paurchase where it was advertised as a group of Kreigsmarine Officers :speechless1:
coldstream Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 And the rear, if anyone could translate please?
paulbear Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 YES I would aggree with the numbers and then the other makers doing up a lot speculating on a contract, still small but might be stumbled on in a lot grabbed from a depot by a GIpaul
dblmed Posted January 25, 2009 Author Posted January 25, 2009 (edited) Great Photo Coldstream! Your very keen eyes captured an exceptionally nice TN Photo, which historically has a great deal to tell us. (I love to examine TN photos!): The Central TN Officer ? wears the 1935 TN Visor Eagle & the late 1935/36 TN M?tzenkranz. His Uniform is configured (with right Shoulder Boards only) in the pre-1936 change to double Shoulder Boards. ? He has the TYR Rune of a graduate of the TN Reichsschule (Belzig), above the TN Eagle Triangle patch on his left upper sleeve. ? His upper collar has a very wide "piping" (widest that I've seen!). This piping was indicative of a special assignment, and we are just now starting to learn about these. ? His Visor, upper edge piping, 'appears' to be in solid Silver (and not in Silver w Black Flecks [V's - Chevrons] ) - with the solid piping introduced in 1936. The 2nd TN Officer ? has a very unusual Visor - as it appears to have Black w Silver V's, as does his Visor Strap / Chin Strap (just like the Visor that Mike Peters showed us in a Prior thread, (but minus the piping around the cap band - still rare to see!) TN White Drillich 'Working Uniform' ? is shown very well, expecially on the TN Mann at the far right. It is the standard 2 button pocket TN model. (Although a rare 1 button pocket model has also been seen in photos.) The White Drillich usually looks 'bulky' - because it was often worn over a uniform or over other clothing. 2nd TN Mann - from lower Reft ? I don't recognize his model brimmed cap? Anyone know what designation it is? Txs. 2nd Mann - from lower Right ? He 'appears' to be wearing (to my eye) the rare to see 1st Model TN Visor Oval - Embroidered (1932-1933) ? which was replaced by the 1st TN Metal Visor model (1934- January 24, 1935) - ? which was then replaced by the familiar 2nd TN Metal Visor model (January 25, 1935-1945) - which was posted previously.? (He isn't wearing a TN Uniform, no TN buttons, but does has an 'illegible' left Lapel pin (? perhaps the TN lapel pin? would need a Hi-Res scan to tell) - and he may be present as a 'stand in' volunteer at this group meeting?)? DATE OF THIS PHOTO? Based upon all that we see here, I believe that the earliest that this photo could be is in 1936, prior to the date of the required change to the use of the double Shoulder Boards, IMO. [The 1939 date on the back kinda 'thows me' - as it seems to be too late... BUT, it is what the owner describes as the correct date, so who am I to disagree?][i've also noted that it took 'many months' for the TN rank and file to come into full compliance with ANY new Uniform regulations. However, the TN Officers were usually the 1st to wear the appropriate 'new' insignia configurations.] Also, all of these Visor and Uniform changes were an expense, and these men were just climbing their way out of the German Depression at this date!Congratulations Coldstream, you certainly have acquired a TN Photo which "really talks to the viewer!"We never find ALL of the Answers, just more great Questions!Paulbear, I do agree with your assessment. I hadn't thought about samples from other manufacturers wanting to get in on some business, even with a "Gesc. Gesch." ...... Txs, Dave/dblmed Edited January 25, 2009 by dblmed
Guest Rick Research Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 Regarding the former 1918 Uboater photo-- he is WAY out of current with no Hindenburg Cross on his medal bar. The fellow with the Hindenburg Cross ribbon out of his pocket flaps is wearing that style which died out very soon afterwards. I'd say this must be from fairly early in 1935 from the "Hindenburgs situation."The style of medal bar being worn by the Uboat veteran was normally worn by only enlisted ranks. The only former Imperial naval officer I find with a Kassel residence in 1935 was former Marine Stabszahlmeister aD (Paymaster Lieutenant Senior Grade-- same as an army Captain) Willy Hoefs, born in 1880, in the navy from 1898-- and back in again by 1937. But in 1935 he was TeNo Ortsgruppenf?hrer for Kassel, at Menzelstra?e 15 (telephone 31 895).The reverse inscription on the group shot above is"Blowing up tree stumps 1939City administration"with the name "Jahn" written sideways at lower left.
paulbear Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 WELL that certainly dates it and brings into question the vast array of uniforms and insignia that early. I would wonder if several levels of the TN org are represented here with regulars militia and reserves all presant for this exercise in demolitions ?PAUL
dblmed Posted January 25, 2009 Author Posted January 25, 2009 (edited) Thanks RICK,It always Amazes me with the fantastic documented information which you come up with. CONGRATS!And thanks for helping to 'ID' the TN Mann, with a probable degree of certainty. Thank you.Also of interest, is that even as 'regimented' as the German war machine was - we constantly see the incorrect usage of Insignia, etc. (Probably more common in the para-military, than in the military branches.) I have a photo of a TN Mann with an ARMY Eagle on his visor, for example!As for the 1939 dated Photo, it would not surprise me at all "IF" some of the TN men continued to wear their Uniforms & Visors, until worn out - or until they could have afforded the "New" ones. (I am just surprised at the style of the TN Officers, at the date of 1939, wearing 'pre-36' Uniforms! But, all of that is part of the fun of collecting.) .... Txs, Dave/dblmed Edited January 25, 2009 by dblmed
coldstream Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 Dave, thanks for all that information, I initially thought that the man lower right with the cap was a member of the DAF, just goes to show you need to check these photos and then check again. I have tried high resoulution scans of both his cap badge and the lapel badge without much luck I'm afraid. (need one of Ricks epsons!)Rick, thanks for the translation. :cheers:
paulbear Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 great photo RICK , one of the most interesting period pics I have seen in a long time and of my favorite topic thanks for sharing itPAUL
dblmed Posted January 26, 2009 Author Posted January 26, 2009 (edited) Coldstream .... Yes, the Visor Insignia when seen on a 3/4 turned view could equally well be for the DAF, as there are similarities (when turned at this angle) vs. the early TeNo. I was also considering what I 'think' that I could see of the the Visor Head Band, which 'looks' like it is smooth or slightly ribbed (which is consistent for a TeNo NCO/EM Visor.)"IF" on your higher Res. scans, you can see "Leaves / ? Florals" in the Visor Head Band, then I'd go with DAF. (Also, for the 1939 date, it kinda leans to DAF.) Either way, it's really great photo for sure! ... Txs, Dave/dblmed Edited January 26, 2009 by dblmed
Guest Rick Research Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 To clarify-- the TeNo boss in Kassel could NOT have been the Uboat veteran-- awards don't match. Whoever the former submariner was, he must have been a naval rating during the war. :beer:
dblmed Posted January 26, 2009 Author Posted January 26, 2009 Thanks Rick ... I got it now! Dave/dblmed
dblmed Posted January 31, 2009 Author Posted January 31, 2009 ? TeNo / TN Armed Einsatzgruppe in France - 1940Here is a nice photo of men of one the TeNo / TN Einsatzgruppen, involved in the invasion of France. (Young guys - Not an old guy in the bunch!). 1) They are fully kitted out, with Gas Capes etc.2) Blank RT. Tabs, which is seen in a lot of 'outside the Reich' photos.(Some 'invasion' photos show the lack of both Tabs & Shoulder Boards.)3) Wearing the Classic TeNo Greatcoat, with 5 buttons / side (these are Silver & have the TN emblem, later on in the war the TN buttons were painted Green, then finally replaced with just Green Heer buttons.)Their rifles have been ID'd as being French Model 1916 Caliber 8mm Lebel. (Must have done some secondary rearming from captured supplies.)?? - Anyone know what the leather 'box' is, which the TN Mann on the Left, is carrying under his Ammo Pouches? ....... Txs, Dave/dblmed
nesredep Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 Reverse of TN GOLD and TN SILVER Visor Sets."Gesc. Gesch." is in lower LEFT of the TN M?tzenkranz, & is one part on each side of the upper edge of the wings of the TN Visor Eagles. ... Txs, Dave/dblmedHello!Interesting Ingsignia. All the bestNesredep
Paul R Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 ? TeNo / TN Armed Einsatzgruppe in France - 1940Here is a nice photo of men of one the TeNo / TN Einsatzgruppen, involved in the invasion of France. (Young guys - Not an old guy in the bunch!). 1) They are fully kitted out, with Gas Capes etc.2) Blank RT. Tabs, which is seen in a lot of 'outside the Reich' photos.(Some 'invasion' photos show the lack of both Tabs & Shoulder Boards.)3) Wearing the Classic TeNo Greatcoat, with 5 buttons / side (these are Silver & have the TN emblem, later on in the war the TN buttons were painted Green, then finally replaced with just Green Heer buttons.)Their rifles have been ID'd as being French Model 1916 Caliber 8mm Lebel. (Must have done some secondary rearming from captured supplies.)?? - Anyone know what the leather 'box' is, which the TN Mann on the Left, is carrying under his Ammo Pouches? ....... Txs, Dave/dblmedThat is a really cool photo! I can see these guys being tasked with manning captured utility facilities and getting them back up and running.
paulbear Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 that box I believe holds his pers cameraPAUL
nesredep Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 that box I believe holds his pers cameraPAULHello!I with you agree. All the bestNesredep
dblmed Posted February 1, 2009 Author Posted February 1, 2009 Yes a CAMERA Holder!Good Eyes guys - needed to hold that camera to take photos for the TeNo Albums that we are now looking for!I guess that this was the equivalent of the Kodak "Brownie" camera, of that time. Txs, Dave / dblmed
paulbear Posted February 1, 2009 Posted February 1, 2009 here is a TENO ID just purchased and on the way
paulbear Posted February 1, 2009 Posted February 1, 2009 here is a TENO ID just purchased and on the way
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