Christian Zulus Posted March 25, 2007 Posted March 25, 2007 Hard job for Carol - there is no Wiki-entry about our hero .Best regards Christian
Christophe Posted March 25, 2007 Author Posted March 25, 2007 He, he... I was the first to say : let's try avoid the Wiki questions... But, to be fair, even if he does not find the complete list, I will give him the Winner Prize!!! Cheers.Ch.
Carol I Posted March 25, 2007 Posted March 25, 2007 Correct!!!!!! We have now a winner!!!!!.... except you have still to give his exact number of Soviet awards and list them!!!!Ready for the challenge ?Sorry Christophe, but I have to decline the challenge as details of Soviet orders are well outside my area of interest . When you mentioned "pilot with pre-WWII achievements" I had immediately thought of one of the propaganda flights of the 1930s made with huge planes of "advanced Soviet design" (the first I thought was the one to the USA, but that was in 1937).
Christophe Posted March 25, 2007 Author Posted March 25, 2007 (...) (the first I thought was the one to the USA, but that was in 1937).Carol,He did both!!!Christian,Do you accept the challenge ? Or do I have to give the complete answers ? And then give Carol the right to ask the next question ?Cheers.Ch.
Ferdinand Posted March 25, 2007 Posted March 25, 2007 1. Georgy Filippovich Baidukov.2. 22 orders.3.2 Orders of Lenin4 Orders of the Red Banner2 Orders of Suvorov 1st Class1 Order of Kutuzov 1st Class1 Order of Kutuzov 2nd Class1 Order of the Patriotic War 1st Class1 Order of the Patriotic War 2nd Class4 Orders of the Red Star1 Order of the October Revolution1 Order of the Red Banner of Labor1 Order of Friendship of Peoples1 Order for Service to the Homeland in de Armed Forces of the USSR 1st Class1 Order for Service to the Homeland in de Armed Forces of the USSR 2nd Class1 Order for Service to the Homeland in de Armed Forces of the USSR 3rd ClassBy the way, Valery Pavlovich Chkalov got the Gold Star Medal, 2 Orders of Lenin and 1 Order of the Red Banner.
Christophe Posted March 25, 2007 Author Posted March 25, 2007 (edited) Auke,Great!!!!But, I have not exactly the same number of Orders nor the same list :21 Soviet Orders :2 Orders of Lenin4 Orders of the Red Banner2 Orders of Suvorov 2nd Class1 Order of Kutuzov 1st Class1 Order of Kutuzov 2nd Class1 Order of the Patriotic War 1st Class1 Order of the Patriotic War 2nd Class4 Orders of the Red Star1 Order of the October Revolution1 Order of the Red Banner of Labor1 Order for Service to the Homeland in de Armed Forces of the USSR 1st Class1 Order for Service to the Homeland in de Armed Forces of the USSR 2nd Class1 Order for Service to the Homeland in de Armed Forces of the USSR 3rd Classand according to my source, no Order of Friendship of People... What is your source here ? Mine is Shishkov & Muzalevsky - Orders and Medals of the USSR - Vol1. Page 291. Published in 2000.About Georgiy Filippovich Baidukov:He was born on 26 May 1907 in the area of Novosibirsk. Russian, pilot, colonel-general, Hero of SU, he began in 1921 to work as building worker on the Siberian railway. He joined then the armed forces, and in 1926 has ended the Leningrad military-theoretical school of the Air Force. In 1928, he became a military pilot (Graduated from 1st Moscow school of military pilots), and in 1931-1934, test-pilot of the Scientific Research Institute of the Air Force. In 1934, he studied at the engineering faculty of Military Air Academy of Zhukovskogo. In the spring 1935, it is recalled from the academy for the preparation for a transarctic flight with the ANT-25 aircraft.From 20 to 22 July 1936, with the ANT-25, with V.P.Tchkalov as Commander and Belyakov, he made a non-stop flight from Moscow through Arctic ocean, Petropavlovsk-Kamchatka to the island Udd (9374 km).He has been made Hero of the Soviet Union and awarded the Order of Lenin on 24 July 1936 for the courage and the heroism shown in performing this non-stop flight. From 18 to 20 June 1937, with the same crew and the same plane, he made a non-stop flight Moscow - North Pole - Vancouver (8504 km).He participated in the Winter War (soviet-finnish war) of 1939-1940, as commander of a fighter regiment. He participated in the Great Patriotic War, from January 1942, as the assistant to the commander to a fighter division, and in 1944 as commander of a fighter division. After the war, he occupied command posts in the Air Force. In 1947-1949, he was the chief of the Central administrative board GVF. In the autumn 1947 he took part in tests of the passenger plane Tu-70. In 1951, he graduated from the Military academy of the Joint Staff. In 1952, has been 1st deputy chief of the General staff of Armies (air defence). In 1957-1972, was chief of the 4th Central administrative board of the Ministry of Defence of the USSR, a member of the Military council of Armies (air defence). In 1972, he became scientific adviser of the commander-in-chief of the Armies (air defence). He died on 28 December 1994. He is buried in Moscow, in the Novodivici cemetery.Now, I think both Carol and Auke are winners, but as Carol made the real tough job to find who was our man, I'll let him ask the next question. Congrats too to Auke for the list. Carol, you are the winner!!! Your turn, now... Cheers.Ch. Edited March 25, 2007 by Christophe
Ferdinand Posted March 25, 2007 Posted March 25, 2007 Yes, you're right, he got two Suvorovs 2nd Class. But he DID receive the Friendship of Peoples, according to Warheroes.ru and, once again, Wikipedia...http://www.warheroes.ru/hero/hero.asp?Hero_id=404http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ба...;ичBaidukov became a Colonel-General of Aviation in 1961. He was, according to both sites, the 'Kavaler naibolshego kolichestva ordenov SSSR' or 'Cavalier of the largest quantity of orders of the USSR'. Carol I can ask the next question, he answered the most difficult part of the question.Auke
Christophe Posted March 25, 2007 Author Posted March 25, 2007 The ideal way to solve the question about the Order of Friendship of People would be to see any document or photograph about it...Congrats Auke for the list you posted!!!Carol, your turn , now... Ch.
Carol I Posted March 25, 2007 Posted March 25, 2007 Carol, you are the winner!!! Your turn, now... Thanks Christophe and Auke for letting me ask the next question. I thought that it would be interesting to remain in the field of Soviet aviation.In August 1941 the Soviets launched several aerial attacks aiming to destroy Romanian objectives in the Dobruja region using a method that was ingenious enough to provide the surprise factor, but quite inefficient in practice. Thus, three successive attacks failed to bring any structural damage to the vital railroad bridge at Cernavodă (although the bridge needed to be closed for 6 hours for minor repairs - see the photo below).And the question is:What method did the Soviets employ for the mentioned attacks in the summer of 1941?
Christian Zulus Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 Questions about our 'Kavaler naibolshego kolichestva ordenov SSSR'Gentlemen,to be serious, our guy didn't make THAT brilliant career as an officer - besides the fact, that he looks rather dull at the photograph.Very late in the GPW (1944) he promoted to a CO of an unit (fighter divison - which one?). He never promoted beyond the rank of a Col.-General (careful, Gentlemen, our guy had not been a manager in industry or designer, he had been a "real" officer!).What shocks me most, is the fact, that our comrade Baidukov got A L L his 3 Motherlands as a retired officer - adviser to bla, bla, ... - and that's somehow a real scandal. Everyone knows the statutes and regulations for the Motherland (if not, please look after in the PMD-Bible ). It has been fair & o.k., that some (really) meritorious COs of the GPW got their Motherland 3cl. It might have been o.k. (still against the statutes of the order!), if some old GPW-Generals, who served afterwards in top postions in the Soviet Army or Navy got a Motherland 2cl at their 80th birthday or so. But it is definetly not o.k., that the Supreme Soviet promoted Col.-Gen. (ret.) Baidukov to a "Full Cavalier of the Motherland" and gave him a Motherland 1cl.So, for my taste the Motherlands 1cl & 2cl for comrade Baidukov have the same legitimacy as the 4x HSUs + Order of Victory + Marshal of the Soviet Union to comrade Brezhnev. BTW: After Brezhnev's death the Supreme Soviet took the Order of Victory from him away.I think, that at least his 2 Motherlands are a little bit suspicious and if you deduct them from his (impressive) list, then Marshal Moskalenko seems to be the real & true 'Kavaler naibolshego kolichestva ordenov SSSR' .Gentlemen, please compare the biographies: Moskalenko vs. Baidukov .O.k., that's been theory, we can not rewrite Soviet history.Coming back to the "Friendship-Question". The Friendship is also a typical award for explorers, pilots, etc. Maybe Baidukov got his Friendship for the Vancuver-flight ? He didn't get another HSU for that deed. It might have been somehow a "catch-up"-award.Gentlemen, sorry for boring you with my phaleristic explorations .Best regards Christian
Christian Zulus Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 (edited) In August 1941 the Soviets launched several aerial attacks aiming to destroy Romanian objectives in the Dobruja region using a method that was ingenious enough to provide the surprise factor, but quite inefficient in practice. Thus, three successive attacks failed to bring any structural damage to the vital railroad bridge at Cernavodă (although the bridge needed to be closed for 6 hours for minor repairs - see the photo below).And the question is:What method did the Soviets employ for the mentioned attacks in the summer of 1941?Dear Carol,as the photograph of the damaged bridge look like, I would assume, that the Red Army Airforce launched a rocket attack to that highly important bridge ?They flew into Romania at very low altitude and fired their (unguided!) rockets - that's tricky and difficult. So, the effect had been almost "zero" .My first idea ...Best regards ChristianA recent photograph of that bridge: Edited March 26, 2007 by Christian Zulus
Knarf Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 Bridge was hit in a dive bombing attack by short range aircraft carried by motherships on Aug 10 1941. 4 I-16SPB from 2 TB-3s attacked with 6 Pe-2 from 40 Bomber Aircraft Regt. Damage on Bridge span Aug 13 repeat of the attack by 3 TB-3s and 6 1-16SPB hit by 10 bombs Hope to be correct Regards Frank
Carol I Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 Bridge was hit in a dive bombing attack by short range aircraft carried by motherships on Aug 10 1941. 4 I-16SPB from 2 TB-3s attacked with 6 Pe-2 from 40 Bomber Aircraft Regt. Damage on Bridge span Aug 13 repeat of the attack by 3 TB-3s and 6 1-16SPBCongratulations Frank!The attacks on the Cernavodă bridge have indeed been carried out by I-16s SPB dive bombers. The I-16s had however too short a range to reach the Romanian targets by themselves, so they had to be carried as parasitic aircraft by TB-3s motherships (a Zveno combination). The defenders of the bridge although surprised to see the Ratas so far away from their bases managed to hamper all the attempts to destroy the bridge, the damage inflicted being minimal.See below some images of the TB-3 aircraft carriers with the I-16s under the wings (from Long Range Bomber/SPB sistem with I-16).
Christian Zulus Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 Bridge was hit in a dive bombing attack by short range aircraft carried by motherships on Aug 10 1941. 4 I-16SPB from 2 TB-3s attacked with 6 Pe-2 from 40 Bomber Aircraft Regt. Damage on Bridge span Aug 13 repeat of the attack by 3 TB-3s and 6 1-16SPB hit by 10 bombs Hope to be correct Regards FrankDear Frank,your answer sounds very plausible - the Soviets were famous for that technique - and I think, that H.R.H. Carol I was looking for something more "fancy", than a mere attack with unguided rockets .I had been biased by the pictures of attacked bridges from the last YU-war in 1999 . But the fact is, that a (guided) US-rocket of 1999 had a much more destructive power, than some Soviet rockets from 1941. I looked again at the damaged steel structure of the bridge: Such damage might have been not possible with a mere unguided rocket in 1941. So, a bomb damage might be more approbriate.Hope you found the right answer .Best regards Christian
Christian Zulus Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 Dear Frank,congratulations to another victory .Sorry, I typed too slowly, so Carol had been faster with the confirmation of your victory .My question to you and/or Carol:What had been the weight of the attached bombs - 250kg or 500kg ?I like the term "parasitic aircraft" very much So, we are waiting for another of your difficult questions.Best regards Christian
JimZ Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 Congratulations Frank!The attacks on the Cernavodă bridge have indeed been carried out by I-16s SPB dive bombers. The I-16s had however too short a range to reach the Romanian targets by themselves, so they had to be carried as parasitic aircraft by TB-3s motherships (a Zveno combination). The defenders of the bridge although surprised to see the Ratas so far away from their bases managed to hamper all the attempts to destroy the bridge, the damage inflicted being minimal.See below some images of the TB-3 aircraft carriers with the I-16s under the wings (from Long Range Bomber/SPB sistem with I-16).Truly interesting pics and info Carol! I wonder what it was like to see these veritable "aircraft carriers" in action!!Jim
Carol I Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 your answer sounds very plausible - the Soviets were famous for that technique - and I think, that H.R.H. Carol I was looking for something more "fancy", than a mere attack with unguided rockets .Hi Christian!I was not looking for the mere bombing of the bridge, but for the idea of I-16s being carried close to the target as parasitic aircraft by another, larger airplane. I am sorry to have disapointed you. I thought this was "fancy" enough for this topic. By the way, Soviet propaganda claimed that the bridge was destroyed in the attacks.
Carol I Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 What had been the weight of the attached bombs - 250kg or 500kg ?Each I-16 carried two 250 kg bombs.
Christian Zulus Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 Hi Christian!I was not looking for the mere bombing of the bridge, but for the idea of I-16s being carried close to the target as parasitic aircraft by another, larger airplane. I am sorry to have disapointed you. I thought this was "fancy" enough for this topic. By the way, Soviet propaganda claimed that the bridge was destroyed in the attacks. Dear Carol,no, I disappointed you with my rather naive & stupid answer .Many thanks for the bomb-info .The term "destroyed" is always very relative in times of war . Gefreiter Schickelgruber told the world in autumn 1942 that the Axis-forces already had captured Stalingrad.Best regards Christian
Knarf Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 Hallo Gents I was born in 1948. I am female. My father Yevgeniy was Commander of the Air Force corps and served with 33rd Fighter Regt in GSFG in 1948. My birth certificate says that I saw the electric light of this world in Moscow. Moscow was always the place of birth for children born outside USSR when the parents were serving.I did three things: I was the first woman to.... I was the first woman to.... I set a record in parachuting. What was it? What do the Germans think where I was born? Where does my husband work? Easy questions! Good luck regards Frank
JimZ Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 Hi Frank - cannot resist this one...I guess you refer to Svetlana Yevgenyevna Savitskaya - twice Female HSU recipient being daughter of Yevgeniy Savitsky, Deputy Commander of Soviet Air Defences, a World War II ace, and also himself twice Hero of the Soviet Union.She was the first woman to perform a space walkShe was the first woman to fly 2,683 km/hr in a MiG 21She Logged 450 jumps by the age of 17 including a jump from 14,252 meters, falling 14 km before opening her chute at 500 metersShe was officially born in Moscow, Russia - You however hint that she was not born there - perhaps Germany if the 33rd fighter regiment was based there.... even Wittstock.... but this is just conjecture.Her husband is Viktor Khatkovsky an engineer and a pilot at Ilyushin Aircraft Design BureauOne hell of a woman no matter her connections!!!Jim BiographySvetlana Savitskaya's career as a cosmonaut owed much to not only her natural ability but the influence of her father. Yeveniy Savitsky, was the Deputy Commander of the Soviet Air Defences, a World War II air ace, and twice Hero of the Soviet Union. On her parents' insistence, Svetlana took up music, English, and swimming in addition to school classes. She was fond of reading, and also went in for figure skating and running. She decided to become a pilot at age 16 and applied for training at an amateur flying school without her parent?s knowledge. She was rejected due to her age for flight training but began parachute training. Her father discovered her secret when he found a parachute knife in her school bag. With her father's support she was able to try for a record stratospheric sky dive at the age of 17. She jumped from 14,252 m and fell for 14 km before opening her parachute at 500 m. By her 17th birthday in 1965 she had completed 450 parachute jumps. At age 18 she began pilot training and enrolled in the premier Soviet aviation engineering school, the Moscow Aviation Institute (MAI). By age 20 she soloed in a YaK-18 trainer. The British Press called her 'Miss Sensation' in 1970 when she became World Champion as a member of the Soviet National Aerobatics Team at the world aerobatics competition at Hullavington. By 1972 she graduated from MAI and became a flying trainer at DOSAAF (Central Technical Flying School of the USSR Voluntary Society for the Promotion of the Army, Air Force, and Navy). However she pushed to be allowed into test-pilot school. After acceptance, she went on to establish many world records in turbo-prop and supersonic aircraft, including the record of 2683 km/hr female record in a MiG-21 aircraft. She qualified as a pilot on 20 types of aircraft. After completing her test-pilot training, and membership in the Communist Part of the Soviet Union in 1975, she became a test pilot for the Yakovlev design bureau in 1976. She was selected as a cosmonaut in 1980, as part of a female team selected to upstage pending female astronaut flights on the space shuttle. She became the second woman in space in 1982, seven months before Sally Ride became the first American female astronaut in space (see the flight log below for details of this and her subsequent flights). She also became the first woman to walk in space. Her later command of an all-female crew to Salyut 7 on the occasion of International Woman's Day was cancelled due to problems with the space station and a limited number of Soyuz T spacecraft available for docking with the station. Svetlana continued as a Civilian Engineer, at Energia NPO while remaining an active cosmonaut. She was made Deputy to the Chief Designer, Energia, in 1987. She became a Member of Parliament in 1989. In 1993 she left the cosmonaut corps without having made another spaceflight. Svetlana is married to Viktor Khatkovsky, an engineer and pilot at the Ilyushin aircraft design bureau. Her favourite composers are Beethoven and Tchaikovsky, and her favourite poet is Mikhail Lermentov. Like other Russian female cosmonauts, she seems to have flown mainly due to her family connections and for propaganda purposes. This in no way diminished her obvious talents and suitability as a pilot cosmonaut. http://www.astronautix.com/astros/savskaya.htm
Knarf Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 Perfect!!!! All I can add is that she is still a communist. It is your turn now! Congratulations! Frank
JimZ Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 Thanks Frank.Parachuting track record and "first woman to...." kind of narrowed it down to a few women .... connected with space! As its rather late here and I have to make an early start .... I'll post a question as soon as I am near a computer tomorrow!Jim
JimZ Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 Ok.... let me not procrastinate and do tomorrow what I can still do today But it's not a complicated one I am Russian and at 24, I had to stop my history studies to pick up a rifle and its attachments instead.One of 2000 others like me, only around 500 of us survived the war. I was wounded in 1942 and after that I would never go back to the front lines as I would go on to become an instructor training others to follow in my footsteps.I served in Odessa and Sevastopol remarkably killing over 300 enemies. Those who did my same job were amongst the fallen. If only they knew who I really was..... After the war I would resume my studies and work as a research assistant with the Soviet Navy HQ. I would also active on the Soviet Committee of the Veterans of War.I would die in my late 50's but my face would grace envelopes and my name given to a cargo ship.1) Who am I?2) Where and when was I born?3) What was my job description when I joined the army?4) How many enemy kills are attributed to me and how many of these did my exact same job for the enemy?5) What was my highest rank?6) What is the highest decoration I would receive?Good luck Jim
Carol I Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 Ok.... let me not procrastinate and do tomorrow what I can still do today But it's not a complicated one I am Russian and at 24, I had to stop my history studies to pick up a rifle and its attachments instead.One of 2000 others like me, only around 500 of us survived the war. I was wounded in 1942 and after that I would never go back to the front lines as I would go on to become an instructor training others to follow in my footsteps.I served in Odessa and Sevastopol remarkably killing over 300 enemies. Those who did my same job were amongst the fallen. If only they knew who I really was..... After the war I would resume my studies and work as a research assistant with the Soviet Navy HQ. I would also active on the Soviet Committee of the Veterans of War.I would die in my late 50's but my face would grace envelopes and my name given to a cargo ship.I could not resist answering this one as I think I got right on spot from the very first search ... 1) Who am I?Lyudmila Mikhailovna Pavlichenko2) Where and when was I born?Born in Bila Tserkva on 12 July 1916.3) What was my job description when I joined the army?Sniper4) How many enemy kills are attributed to me and how many of these did my exact same job for the enemy?Her total confirmed kills during World War II was 309, including 36 enemy snipers.5) What was my highest rank?Major.6) What is the highest decoration I would receive?Gold Star of the Hero of the Soviet Union.
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