Hungary A 1996- 1956 veterans medal

[Ulsterman]

Welcome to our new member from Oz!

It is with great pleasure I post some pictures of his fathers' 1956 order, which he earned in the 1956 Revolution and was given in 1996.

This is something new for me, as I wasn't even aware these were out there.

For me the BIG and WONDERFUL thing is that the Orders are numbered and match the diploma.

Now, if somebody IN Hungary could obtain the Orders Honor roll (and maybe publish it).......

I am just going to post the photos and let Les in Australia (man, would I like to be there today- as snowflakes drift idly past my windowpanes).

Edited October 29, 2008 by Ulsterman

[Ulsterman]

Here's the certificate: #31.

[Ulsterman]

the medal:

[Ulsterman]

.. and THE BACK! (#31!!!-Yay!!!!)

Les! PLEASE tell us how your Dad was awarded this medal.

It is an awesome piece of history.

Edited October 29, 2008 by Ulsterman

[Yildirim]

This is not an official Hungarian order

[Ulsterman]

Oh?

Then, what is it? An unofficial vanity piece...or was it awarded by a quango?

How's life in "Phantomland"? :speechless1:

[Peter Orincsay]

As I went down to Hungary for the 50th anniversary of the 1956in the fall of 2006 I met this elderly gentleman outside of the parliament building at the Kossuth square in Budapest. He told me that he was a veteran of the uprising against the Russians and the Hungarian secret police, the AVH back in 1956 and that he later was in jail for 13 years because of his participation.

He received several medals from various veteran organizations as seen on my portrait photo. There are still very few "state" awards for heroism and participation. A few were awarded the Hungarian Order of Merit (Like Maria Wittner, a famous freedom fighter from 1956) but most were not, only by volunteer associations for participants of the 1956 uprising.

[Paul R]

Official or unofficial, it is still a really cool and attributed piece.

[Gordon Craig]

Ulsterman,

As it says on the document, these medals were awarded by the Hungarian Freedom Fighters Association (close enough translation). The different awards are not that uncommon here but award documents are uncommon. There was a small book done on these awards a few years ago, and it was full of errors and omissions, but still better than no reference at all. I have one of these awards in my collection where the cross is black for a postumous award.

Regards,

Gordon

[Laszlo]

Ulsterman,

As it says on the document, these medals were awarded by the Hungarian Freedom Fighters Association (close enough translation). The different awards are not that uncommon here but award documents are uncommon. There was a small book done on these awards a few years ago, and it was full of errors and omissions, but still better than no reference at all. I have one of these awards in my collection where the cross is black for a postumous award.

Regards,

Gordon

Hi guys,

this is my first post here, here you go some bits and peices my father told me ;

When the revolution started, my father was just 16 or turning 16 i am not 100% sure about it. My family after 1945 was on a so called "blacklist" because of its wartime contribution against the communists. My fathers cousin also had to emigrate (1945 - ran away) he was listed in the Hungarian-SS. He still lives in France today in Lille. Anyways, when it all started my father and his freinds got together to take there part, they sort of thought that its kind of fun shooting around and stuff,... before 1956, my dad and his best freind had found 4 handguns, with boxes of ammunition for them, and at the breakout that was the weapon that they used. In that caos there first objective at the town they live was to get the police station, which today is still there and when we were there my dad showed me how it all went..anyway the police officers didnt fight they were sort of supprised... when they had weapons and all that they got into a larger group and around that area their group was the one of the biggest ones, which later then made their way to the capital Budapest were most of the fighting took place. There was a major incident when they cought a local high end official and grabbed him, about 6 of them with my dad in it, and took him out on a boat in the lake, and wanted to execute him and toss him in the water...it didnt happen because, well they were talked out but my dad honestly regrets it till today...actually about 4 years ago while in Hungary my dad got to know the guys son, who is still a supporter of the government today and is in a hight political posiotion and as I have mentioned earlier the government today in Hungary is as bad as it was before, it is still the same bad people governing. The wife of the hungarian president is the doughter of an executioner who did his "duty" in the communist era...discusting....one of the ex-presidents of Hungary who`s name is Gyula Horn, was in the 1956 revolution but fighting for the communists.that shows how it is still..anyway so after all these had happend my dad was in Budpest with all the freinds, and also another incident that happend, they were having lunch or I think dinner, it was in smashed buildings, and it was like in the field, anyway so the next thing happend, they were sitting in a half circle, or U shape around the fire, and behind them was a brick wall that was half down, and then suddenly one of my dad`s freinds just pulls his TT pistol out and shoots a russian in the head, who was trying to put a machin gun (DRP) over the brick wall and their luck was that my dads freind was facing the russian he saw the barrel of the weapon come over the bricks when he saw his face he just shot him strait away, then they took his weapons too my dad also remembers what it feels like when the bullet goes flying past your head, the sound of it and the wind after this all ended my dads freinds most of them escaped, one went into the CIA, actually this one who shot the guy over the bricks, my dad stayed home, and was on the run for 2 weeks, fully armed!! and he told me if a police would have asked for Id`s, he would have gave him some of the 9mm ones then my grandad was taken away by authorities and then my dad gave him self up, he spent about nearly a month in prison, torchure and the rest, and somehow my grandad had a freind who he had known from like the 30`s and he got him out, but if that wouldn`t have been now this thread would not be written by me either.........there is so much to say a book could be written about it.... I guess Il get some more stuff for you next time... hope you enjoy...

best regards, Les.

p.s. my father was sent this award throught the government to Australia in `96.

[Ulsterman]

Peter! Awesome photo. Thankee' kindly.

Gordon-sounds like the basis for a JOMSA article or even a booklet to me. Any chance Charles is interested?

Les! Thanks. I'd love to hear more history.

Great, wonderful piece of history there.

[Laszlo]

This is not an official Hungarian order

I dont know how "official" it is but, the Hungarian gov. sent this to my dad while we were in Australia, personally it came from Arpad Gonc. It just was in the mailbox one morning....a great supprise I guess. Also on the document it states, it is for his actions and for showing high political and ethical will to the homeland. The cross if translated it says "Honur to the Motherland Cross"

regards, Les.

[hunyadi]

These are nice pieces, but they are not sanctioned by the government, meaning that government does not issue them. The Hungarain Freedom Fighters Association does - but they are officially allowed to be worn on uniforms of the armed forces (police, army, firefighters, etc...). The photo that Peter posted of the old veteran is interesitng as no one apparently informed him of where he was supposed to wear his medals and badges. I can see him saying "Nesszojabe! - I was there!"...

As for the fututre of revelaing anything about these orders... Time is a precious comodity and trying to get the book ready by January of 2009 is trying enough!

[Gordon Craig]

Ulsterman,

A booklet would be a great idea but research would be a bear and too time consuming for me as well. Also a book in the works here. If I find time, I'll try to start a thread on these awards.

Regards,

Gordon

[Ed_Haynes]

Interesting artifact of a difficult time. But, as this is posted in the "People's Republic of Hungary" sub-forum, we need to remind ourselves that this unofficial award was in no way any award of the People's Republic. The official award for these events was the Munk?s-Paraszt Hatalom?rt Eml?k?rem / Return of Rule to the Workers and Peasants Medal.

Edited October 30, 2008 by Ed_Haynes

[Laszlo]

Interesting artifact of a difficult time. But, as this is posted in the "People's Republic of Hungary" sub-forum, we need to remind ourselves that this unofficial award was in no way any award of the People's Republic. The official award for these events was the Munk?s-Paraszt Hatalom?rt Eml?k?rem / Return of Rule to the Workers and Peasants Medal.

for sure mate if you took part in anything against the "Peoples republic..." then u were`nt awarded anything...you were luck to be alive at the time, I dont know were you got that from but...for people who haven`t been there at the time or not from that country, it is a good advice to look at the House of Terror museum (60. Andrassy Street).

regards, Les.

[Ed_Haynes]

I was not trying to drag this into politics. I was just pointing out, as a correction, what the official Hungarian medal for this uprising looked like.

[Gordon Craig]

Les,

I think that you have missed the point of Ed's post. This a forum dedicated to medals, awards (military and civilian) that were officially created by the HUPR government plus associated militaria. Not medals or awards created by an organization that came into being after the change of regime when the HUPR ceased to exist. Items posted that are not officially created HUPR items are normally moved to a more suitible forum. Ulsterman started the thread here mistakenly because he did not realize that your post did not concern an official HUPR award.

Regards,

Gordon

[Laszlo]

I was not trying to drag this into politics. I was just pointing out, as a correction, what the official Hungarian medal for this uprising looked like.

that medal has nothing to do with the revolution you showed. Im afraid the whole thing about the revoultion is about politics..I guess you had have to live there to really know.

[Ulsterman]

Oh I knew it wasn't a HUPR award, but the HUPR is all about 1956-before and after.

Besides, we don't have a post Communist Hungarian forum and even if we did, who would post there?

Years from now somebody will look here to find this useful information.

So, what books are you chaps writing?

[Gordon Craig]

Ulsterman,

Re the Post Communist era forum. There is a growing number of collectors in Hungary who are moving into the 1957 and onwards militaria for the same reason most of us moved out Third Reich stuff.. The fakes of the Rakosi era, which has been the most active in recent years, have got to be so good that experts can not tell the difference.

I bought an extremely rare Rakosi era Air Force tunic at the last monthly militaria show and found out a few days later that it was probably not authentic. I took it to my friend Tamas, the uniform and equipment curratory at the Military Museum here in Budapest, and he spent over an hour inspecting it. His conclusion was that if it was faked there was no obvious way to tell. Setting up the meeting etc took a few days and in the meantime contact had been established with the vendor. His original story was that he had bought the tunic from the original owner 20 years previously. Subsequently he said he had acquired it without the collar tabs and shoulderboards and added them. One of the things Tamas pointed out to me while I was at the museum uniform store room was that the tunic had belonged to a theatre group at some point. He showed me a tunic in the museum's collection with a white tag, with a red control number on it, sewn into the interior of the tunic and then fastened into place securely with a metal rivet. The tag was missing in the tunic I had bought but you could still see the edges of the white cloth where it had been removed plus the rivet was still there. This was new and very valuable news to me.

Before I took the tunic to the museum I thought that I would give it the old "black light" test. I didn't know if this would prove anything or not but perhaps I could learn something. As it turned out, the collar tabs did not glow under the black light but shoulderboards sure did. The colour for these boards and collar tabs is light blue with a white border. The shoulderboards glowed a bright purple colour and when inspected under good outdoor light were obviously of a more purplish tint than the collar tabs. The story had a happy ending (for me) in that my money was refunded. All that to say that, in the future, there may well be a place for a post 1989 forum as I have been told that the 1957 tunics are being faked as well. Also, post 89 awards command top prices in stores and auctions. anaywhere from 2 to three times the similar HUPR wards. I have suggested elsewhere that an "International Forum" might be useful on the GMIC. The International Forum on the WAF serves a very useful purpose as you are well aware.

Ok, now that I have bored you for long enough, to talk about the book. That is a moving target. I started out trying to write a book on Hungarian camouflge uniforms but that was a joint venture that was still born. My next thought was to focus on uniforms of the civilian type. Information on these is scarce to nonexistant with only a few interested collectors. As well, vendors add all sorts of badges and insignia to uniforms they know nothing about and it becomes very difficult to tell what actually existed and what didn't. There are no museums in this area, outside of the Police Museum, the Customs and Finance Guards museum which is only open by appoinment and the Firefighters Museum. So I have moved onto plan C? In the works now is a book on civilian badges and awards (1948-1990) which is a wide scope and will probably be either trimmed down or extend to more than one volume. A lot of these badges and awards are little known outside of Hungary and indeed inside Hungary as well. As for Charles, he will speak for himself or you may have to wait, as impatiently as I am, until December of this year.

Regards,

Gordon

Edited October 30, 2008 by Gordon Craig

[Yildirim]

...

Edited October 30, 2008 by Yildirim

[seb16trs]

Ulsterman,

Re the Post Communist era forum. There is a growing number of collectors in Hungary who are moving into the 1957 and onwards militaria for the same reason most of us moved out Third Reich stuff.. The fakes of the Rakosi era, which has been the most active in recent years, have got to be so good that experts can not tell the difference.

hello Gordon, this is a frightening situation... which fields are infected with fakes? cloth? orders?

[Gordon Craig]

seb16trs,

Both uniforms and orders are being faked. So far, only the uniforms are really well done. The HUPR faked medals are not very well done and relatively easy to spot as fakes if you have seen a real one. I saw a copy of the "Order of Merit of the Hungarian Peoples Republic 1978" on display at the Police Museum yesterday. I've seen a few of these medals around and they shouldn't fool anyone as they are poorly made and the red enamel is more orange than it should be. The award that has been copied the most accurately is 1948 "The Presidents Wreath". All three classes, gold, silver and bronze, have been copied. Some of the copies have the date on the back and some do not. These awards are very rare and so well done it is difficult to tell the originals from the fakes because hardly anyone has an original for comparison purposes. The best way to spot the fakes here is the copies have newer ribbons and the red is still bright. On the originals the red ribbon will have faded to a more orange looking colour.

I stay away from the WWII Hungarian awards unless I am with someone very knowledgable. I don't know these awards very well and the copies are good enough to fool most people.

Regards,

Gordon