EK 1914 Document - EK1 to Jew

[Naxos]

Just noticed - right upper corner of the picture is the shingle

[Guest Rick Research]

Also forgot: the Iron Cross document was signed by Generalleutnant Otto Franz Hermann Karl "v(on) Etzel" (1860-1934).

[nesredep]

Hello!

Congrats,very nice photo find.

All the best

Nesredep

[Naxos]

I think the Casino is in (B http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2008/post-1062-1226108977.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2008/post-1062-1226108830.jpg) Bry, Nord-Pas-de-Calais, France - 20km west of Mauberge.

Hardy

Edited November 8, 2008 by Naxos

[PKeating]

A very nice set and photo combination. Thanks.

But just curious: Would you have listed a group as "EK1 to Christian"?

The author of the thread is from Israel. If you can nurture an interest in British medals awarded to Indians or South Asians, surely a Jewish student and collector can be interested in an Iron Cross to a German-Jewish hero? In fact, for the sake of pedantry, Rothman was a German, fighting for his fatherland when he won the EK1, whereas the Indians who received British medals were collaborating with the enemy. An Iron Cross to an African would be interesting too.

I think it is very relevant, given Herr Rothman's subsequent emigration to Palestine/Israel. This is an extremely poignant WW1 Iron Cross group. Rothman was relatively fortunate, although he looks quite haunted in the later photograph. A victim of Kristallnacht, perhaps? There were Iron Cross holders like Rothman who faced the Einsatzgruppen wearing their decorations, making the executioners uncomfortable. And the officer who recommended Hitler for the EK1 was a Jew.

So, yes, it's relevant.

PK

Edited November 12, 2008 by PKeating

[PKeating]

Also forgot: the Iron Cross document was signed by Generalleutnant Otto Franz Hermann Karl "v(on) Etzel" (1860-1934).

As a matter of interest, Franz Hermann Karl Otto von Etzel was the brother of G?nther von Etzel, who held the Pour-le-M?rite Order with Oakleaves. Here is the family website: http://www.vonetzel.com/ G?nther and Franz von Etzel were both generals.

PK

Edited November 12, 2008 by PKeating

[Les]

As a matter of interest, Franz Hermann Karl Otto von Etzel was the brother of G?nther von Etzel, who held the Pour-le-M?rite Order with Oakleaves. Here is the family website: http://www.vonetzel.com/ G?nther and Franz von Etzel were both generals.

PK

Brain H, (the "von Etzel" he used on this and other forums), said in one of his posts on WAF that his mother's father had a Jewish mother or grandmother. He said during the later part of WWI his grandfather saved the life of a man who later became a NSDAP gauleiter for the district his grandfather lived in.

His grandather's status as a war hero, and with a little protection from a gauleiter probably kept someone the higher ups in the SD/SS/Gestapo would have applied the full force of the Nuremburg race laws on from being sent to a KZ camp. His brother Franz however was not awarded a PlM, and died in 1934. If he lived a little longer, things might have gotten "ugly" for the man with a Jewish grandmother, who gave Rothmann an EKI.

Igor, Rick and PK are quite correct that this grouping is important on many levels.

Les

Edited November 25, 2008 by Les

[PKeating]

Brainus has contributed all sorts of fascinating details of the von Etzel family's history to the internet. Did you know that one of the family also won a Knight's Cross at Stalingrad before dying there? I wish he would write a book about it.

PK

[Igor Ostapenko]

:blush: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320411597892

From Haifa to Ontario and from Canada back to Israel

Tag of fieldunterarzt Rothmann

[Guest Rick Research]

:Cat-Scratch:

HURRAH! HURRAH! HURRAH!

Congratulations!!!!!! :cheers:

[Igor Ostapenko]

THANK YOU !!!

:cheers:

[PKeating]

Bravo, Igor! Wonderful reuniting of elements of a very significant grouping. I was just looking at the 1938 photograph again, which I find extremely moving. I hope he managed to find a better life in Palestine-Israel than the life he obviously left behind him. It is precisely such personal items that emphasise the horror of something most people can only think of in terms of surreal numbers.

PK

[Chris Boonzaier]

Apparently at the jewish cemetary in Aschaffenburg there is a grave of a man who won the EK2 and was then killed in 1918. grave of his mother who died in the 20s then a post 45 tomb for the sister and father who were deported in 42 or 43.

I have been meaning to visit and do some photos for an article.

Best

Chris

[joe campbell]

Most interesting thread!

is the dogtag - beautiful script! - something that was

on a regular basis? "comemorative" after the war?

i don't recall seeing such a striking tag.

joe

[nesredep]

Hello!

Interesting.

All the best

Nesredep.

[all1knew]

Hello there,

What a fantasic grouping! Glad to see it preserved.

William Kramer

[ph0ebus]

Hi all,

New to this thread, and to this forum as well (first post!). Indeed, great to see everything preserved together. My grandfather, who was Jewish, was awarded the EKII in 1917; I have the document he received with the award, but sadly the EKII itself was lost at some point in the last 90 or so years. You can read a bit about him (and how he earned his EKII) here, if you like:

Unteroffizier Emanuel Stern

I can post a scan of the document if there is interest.

Take care, and I look forward to many interesting discussions.

-Daniel

[Schießplatzmeister]

Hello Daniel:

Welcome to the forum! The website regarding your grandfather is wonderfully done. I enjoyed reading it very much.

I would like to point out another great research tool right here in our "backyard" which I have used in the past. It is the Leo Baeck Institute in New York. They are most helpful and have a great many resources available.

Best regards,

"SPM"

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi Daniel,

That is a fantastic page, well done!!!!

[Ulsterman]

Just read your website! Bravo!!! Well done. Are you also at the great War Forum perchance?

[ph0ebus]

Just read your website! Bravo!!! Well done. Are you also at the great War Forum perchance?

Hello all,

Thanks for the kind feedback. The webpage has been a labour of love for some time now, and I am regularly finding out new tidbits and adding them as I can. Right now, I am in the process of digitizing the Unit History for Feldartillerie Regiment Nr. 47, and will make a good faith effort to try and read it, but given I do not know German, I expect it may take a while.

And yes, I am a member of the GWF, and a few other related forum sites. I see a few familiar names here already and see it really is a small world after all.

To SPM: I know the Leo Baeck Institute well. They were instrumental in helping me navigate a transaction with Landesamtes für Gesundheit und Soziales Berlin a few years back and helped me translate the health records I got from them for my grandfather. I have been meaning to go back but finding the time has been difficult.

-Daniel

Edited September 24, 2010 by ph0ebus