Soviet An American Receives the Red Banner, 1945

[Bill Dienna]

I thought that this was an interesting photo. Taken in May of 1945, it shows an American Colonel of a Corps Command level (note that he wears General Staff collar insignia) receiving the Order of the Red Banner from General V.S. Kuznetzov of the Red Army 40th army infantry corps. It is not readily visible in the photo (I didn't even notice it until I enlarged it on my spiffy scanner), but General Kuznetzov wears around his neck the American decoration of the Legion of Merit, Commander grade, which I'm certain that he had just been awarded himself.

What I found particularly fascinating was the young Lieutenant standing between the officers. He wears crossed rifles on his collar as an infantry officer, buy wears no combat awards, simply the European Campaign ribbon. AND he wears the Soviet Guards badge! I assume that he was the interpreter. I think that the only other photo that I've seen of an American wearing a Guards badge was one of Patton. I wonder whether there was some criteria for "awarding" a Guards badge, or whether it was more of a "souvenir" given by the Guards unit?

[Paul R]

I am thinking that he could have been attached to a Guards unit as an interpreter, as you mentioned. Can you post an image of the enlarged award?! :jumping:

[Bill Dienna]

I am thinking that he could have been attached to a Guards unit as an interpreter, as you mentioned. Can you post an image of the enlarged award?!

Well, I'm still getting the hang of this scanner/photography stuff, Paul, but I'll give it a try. Which award?

[Chris Boonzaier]

wanna bet he "retired" that award in the late 40's ? ;-)

[Paul R]

Well, I'm still getting the hang of this scanner/photography stuff, Paul, but I'll give it a try. Which award?

The Red Banner. I find it fascinating that this ORB is the highest award that he has! He is wearing more Soviet metal than American!

I agree with Chris. I bet that these items found their place in the underwear drawer pretty quickly.

[Bill Dienna]

wanna bet he "retired" that award in the late 40's ? ;-)

That's a really interesting point, Chris. I'm sure that he probably did.

And yet, if you look at the portrait photographs of the Soviet Marshals taken in full dress uniforms in the early 1950's, they ALL wear their foreign decoration, including their American decorations.

[Chuck In Oregon]

Is this really Bill Dienna? Where you been, Bill? They just let you out?

That's a great photo. WW II's smallest awards ceremony. In case of bad weather they could've moved it indoors... to a three-holer. Is there a story about how you came into possession of this picture? Nice find.

Nice exchange of awards, too. Good for the morale, will go a long ways toward establishing post-war harmony.

The poor 1LT must have arrived on May 10.

Chuck

[Bill Dienna]

Hi Chuck!

Well, I saw the photo on Ebay. It was titled simply as "American receives Russian award" or something like that. My eye was caught by the Lieutenant with the guards badge, and I purchased the photo for $10.

What's really interesting is that the Colonel receiving the ORB is named on the reverse of the photo. I'm in the process now of attempting to locate one of his family members in the hope of obtaining more information about him. I'm sure that his citation for the ORB was much the same as many of our citations for the Legion of Merit, to wit, "For exceptional services in the Allied cause, materially contributing to the defeat of the enemy", and similar generalizations. But one never knows. I would love to know, for example, if he received an award book? Photo in it? What the heck did he actually do for the Army that led to him being given the ORB, for even if it was a generalized citation, he still had to have been in some position that would have brought him to the attention of the senior award-givers!

I once saw a cased Order of the Patriotic War, first class, that was purchased at an estate sale in New Jersey. It had been awarded to an American WW II Navy Officer who was stationed in Moscow during the War. It included an award book with his photo in Navy uniform. A very cool item that was sold at the estate sale after his death.

I've always been interested in the exchange of awards between the USA and other countries, so I was glad to obtain this photo.

[Ulsterman]

Great photo! Did you see the OMSA article on Soviet awards to Americans in WW2?

[Ferdinand]

I find it fascinating that this ORB is the highest award that he has! He is wearing more Soviet metal than American!

Why do you think that?

[Bill Dienna]

Actually, I don't think we can say what awards the Colonel has received in his career, since we can't see his ribbons, which would be on the other side of his uniform, away from the photographer. It is possible that he was career army, in which case I would expect that he had several medals dating from at least World War I.

On the subject of foreign awards, I once knew an American Lieutenant Colonel who commanded an armored regiment in Normandy. He was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross for valor. For the same action he was awarded the British Distinguished Service Order. I asked him if he knew how he had been selected for the award. He told me that at some point some British officers had requested that US Army command provide them with copies of valor citations for the campaign. It was his understanding that those British officers then sat down at a table and went through all of the citations, selecting some of them, and placing them in a pile. The soldiers whose citations ended up in that pile received the equivalent British award for their American decoration.

I also knew one of Eisenhower's pilots. He had flown Ike into the Soviet zone to receive the Order of Victory from Marshal Zhukov. I asked him if he saw the decoration. He said "Absolutely", that Ike had shown it to him when they had returned to the America zone. He told me that Ike took the Order of Victory in the palm of his hand and said "Look at that son of a bitch! What am I going to do with that goddam thing?". Then, after a moment of reflection, Ike said "Well...I guess it will look good in a museum someday." and that, the pilot added, is exactly where it ended up.

[NavyFCO]

Great photo! Did you see the OMSA article on Soviet awards to Americans in WW2?

I bet if Bill did, he wouldn't be asking as many questions...as I answered several of the ones he asks in the thread in my article.

:cheers:

[Bill Dienna]

It is correct that I did not see the article.

[NavyFCO]

It is correct that I did not see the article.

Bill - No worries. I would try to get a copy of it as I think it's a mighty good article. (In fact, didn't I post up a copy of it on here a while back?)

To briefly answer some of your questions:

I wonder whether there was some criteria for "awarding" a Guards badge, or whether it was more of a "souvenir" given by the Guards unit?

Guards badges tended to be more of an anomoly than anything else. Americans who were awarded these recalled that they were treated like awards...and for many of them, they believed it was an award; just like the GPW, ORB, RS, etc...most of the recipients didn't know the Soviet awards system all too well during the Cold War to determine otherwise, so they just believed it was a "Guards" medal. Only a handful of units received these badges, my guess is that one or two Guards divisions handed them out in lieu of actual awards...perhaps as a "gesture" when ordered to do so but the Soviet commanding general didn't believe in giving awards to Americans? Who knows...

What's really interesting is that the Colonel receiving the ORB is named on the reverse of the photo. I'm in the process now of attempting to locate one of his family members in the hope of obtaining more information about him. I'm sure that his citation for the ORB was much the same as many of our citations for the Legion of Merit, to wit, "For exceptional services in the Allied cause, materially contributing to the defeat of the enemy", and similar generalizations. But one never knows. I would love to know, for example, if he received an award book? Photo in it? What the heck did he actually do for the Army that led to him being given the ORB, for even if it was a generalized citation, he still had to have been in some position that would have brought him to the attention of the senior award-givers!

If possible, I would love to get his name so I can compare it to my database. Please feel free to PM or e-mail me if you'd rather not post it openly.

AS far as the citation, chances are, he never had one. I only know of one occasion where a Soviet award given in the ETO had an award document, and that was a temporary document. I have documentation from several units of the award serial numbers and recipients, as recorded by the awarding Soviet unit...but the recipients didn't get any hard-copy documentation.

The only ones that you will find with formal documentation are the Navy and Coast Guard awards as you mention later in your post.

As far as why he got it...I don't know. Many of the awards were given out simply because the recipient showed up at the awards ceremony and they were given awards commensurate to their rank. I know of one case where the award was given out due to the recipient's heroism and resulting US award that was roughly equal to the Soviet award.

Hope that helps!

Dave

[iouri]

Good evening everyone !

This is interesting photo of New Zeland pilot with Order of Lenin