Deruelle Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 Hi everybody, here is one of my new Saxon ribbon bar. The combo is very interresting. Indeed, Saxe connection with Saxe Weimar. It indicate that our man came from the Karabiner Regiment whose Chief was Wilhelm Ernst von Sachsen Weimar. But we can find Finnland ribbons : from 1918 to 1939-40. Some few names appears : If the ALbert knight cross is 1st class with X, we have probably the following name : Major a. D. Walther von Ehrenkrook But if the Albert knight cross is from 2nd class with X, we have the following name : Leutnant Ernst Guenther Of course there is probably more names but for the moment that's all I have. Christophe
Guest Rick Research Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 At some point when the Happy Day arrives when we have the list of Finnish awards to Germans, it may be possible to narrow this down when it is known who did NOT get a Cross of Liberty. Only that one Saxon unit was present in Finland. Walter Ulric (no h in his middle name) Adolf von Ehrenkrook was born in Berlin 17.08.83. His entry in the "Genealogisches Handbuch der Adeligen Häuser B Band I" from the outstanding C. A. Starke Verlag (1954) merely lists him as Major aD with Ehrenritter class of the Johanniter Order.
Daniel Krause Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Ohh!!! Look what I have here: Greetings daniel
landsknechte Posted September 17 Posted September 17 (edited) Daniel & Christope, I was poking around online last night researching my runt of the litter sibling of your bars: ...and I came upon a nifty 1924 regimental history book about the Karabinier-Regiment! (You can access it via Hathitrust here, and you can download a PDF through Google Books here.) Anyhow, onto the really interesting bit. It lists who from the Karabinier-Regiment received the Cross of Liberty: Major v. Reden Rittmeister Merz Rittmeister v. Ehrenkrook Oberleutnant Schintling-Horny Oberleutnant v. Schierbrand Leutnant v. Arnim Leutnant Guenther Leutnant d.R. Frentzel Leutnant d.R. Hahne Leutnant d.R. Leo Leutnant d.R. Schippel Leutnant d.R. Mummert Leutnant d.R. Herfurth Leutnant d.R. Hildebrand So much for Ehrenkrook and Guenther as viable candidates, apparently. Additionally, I came across a field guide to Swedish noblemen - "Den introducerade svenska adelns ättartavlor" by Gustaf Elgenstierna that has an entry for Ehrenkrook. If it's accurate, it would seem he also had a Brunswick KVK. Have you guys identified any other candidates? Edited September 17 by landsknechte
JohanH Posted September 17 Posted September 17 On 14/10/2009 at 23:58, Guest Rick Research said: At some point when the Happy Day arrives when we have the list of Finnish awards to Germans, it may be possible to narrow this down when it is known who did NOT get a Cross of Liberty. Only that one Saxon unit was present in Finland. Walter Ulric (no h in his middle name) Adolf von Ehrenkrook was born in Berlin 17.08.83. His entry in the "Genealogisches Handbuch der Adeligen Häuser B Band I" from the outstanding C. A. Starke Verlag (1954) merely lists him as Major aD with Ehrenritter class of the Johanniter Order. That happy day has already come! It's sad that Rick didn't get to see it... Here is the list: Egenutgivna böcker - Medalj-forskning.se There will also be lists of Swedish recipients of the cross of Liberty 1918 and German recipients of 1941-1944. 1
Deutschritter Posted September 17 Posted September 17 6 minutes ago, JohanH said: Here is the list: Egenutgivna böcker - Medalj-forskning.se There will also be lists of Swedish recipients of the cross of Liberty 1918 and German recipients of 1941-1944. What great work, absolutely phantastic! Small correction, if I may: Deutschen mit der Finnische Freiheitz kreuz in 1918 = Deutsche Empfänger des Finnischen Freiheitskreuzes im Jahre 1918
JohanH Posted September 17 Posted September 17 1 hour ago, Deutschritter said: What great work, absolutely phantastic! Small correction, if I may: Deutschen mit der Finnische Freiheitz kreuz in 1918 = Deutsche Empfänger des Finnischen Freiheitskreuzes im Jahre 1918 Thanks! I have updated it now. I only learned basic school german many years ago of which I remember very little. Our substitute teacher didn't speak german so we watched Das Boot (with Swedish subtitles) several times instead of learning the language. 1
landsknechte Posted September 20 Posted September 20 Found another mention in the book of some further awardees: This thread from 2021 cites a newspaper article mentioning some awardees from various units. From the Karabinier-Regiment: Leutnant Hans Arwed v. Poser u. Groß-Nädlitz, Leutnant d.R. Gerhard Merkel and Richard Koerner. Frustratingly, Merkel was the best candidate I had thus far found, going off of the awards mentioned in the book, and the 1914 ranklist. He had the EK2, SA3bX, and GSF3bX. Major Willy Garten-Kraft had the EK2, SA3a, GSF3a, and a DA. While it's not unheard of for a minimalist officer to not wear their long service, he has a distinct lack of swords. Anyone have a first name on Rittmeister von Pawel-Rammingen? Was it Udo that served in the Karabinier-Regiment, or one of the numerous other von Pawel-Rammingens?
Nicolas7507 Posted September 20 Posted September 20 Hello, Top bar is Ehrenkrook/Guenther. Lower bar is Major Willy Garten-Kraft. Kind regards, Nicolas
landsknechte Posted September 20 Posted September 20 1 hour ago, Nicolas7507 said: Top bar is Ehrenkrook/Guenther. The problem is the missing Cross of Liberty. We've now got evidence that both Ehrenkrook and Guenther were awarded it. While it's possible that they omitted it for some reason, it seems odd they would choose to leave out an order in favor of a couple of less prestigious commemorative medals. Doubly so since we're looking at ribbon bars made a few years apart from each other. I'm not pleased about the discovery, but I believe the bars that you, Daniel, and I have belong to a different officer from the Karabinier-Regiment. I'm hoping someone with access to the Albert Order and White Falcon rolls might be able to find some additional candidates.
JohanH Posted September 20 Posted September 20 On 17/09/2024 at 16:02, landsknechte said: Daniel & Christope, I was poking around online last night researching my runt of the litter sibling of your bars: ...and I came upon a nifty 1924 regimental history book about the Karabinier-Regiment! (You can access it via Hathitrust here, and you can download a PDF through Google Books here.) Anyhow, onto the really interesting bit. It lists who from the Karabinier-Regiment received the Cross of Liberty: Major v. Reden Rittmeister Merz Rittmeister v. Ehrenkrook Oberleutnant Schintling-Horny Oberleutnant v. Schierbrand Leutnant v. Arnim Leutnant Guenther Leutnant d.R. Frentzel Leutnant d.R. Hahne Leutnant d.R. Leo Leutnant d.R. Schippel Leutnant d.R. Mummert Leutnant d.R. Herfurth Leutnant d.R. Hildebrand So much for Ehrenkrook and Guenther as viable candidates, apparently. Additionally, I came across a field guide to Swedish noblemen - "Den introducerade svenska adelns ättartavlor" by Gustaf Elgenstierna that has an entry for Ehrenkrook. If it's accurate, it would seem he also had a Brunswick KVK. Have you guys identified any other candidates? FYI That is not a complete list of Liberty Cross awards to Kgl. Sächs. Karabinier. Regt. There were at least 22 crosses and two Liberty medals awarded. 1
landsknechte Posted September 24 Posted September 24 (edited) On 20/09/2024 at 09:58, JohanH said: FYI That is not a complete list of Liberty Cross awards to Kgl. Sächs. Karabinier. Regt. There were at least 22 crosses and two Liberty medals awarded. With that in mind, I went through the book again to double check, This is a list of the officers that were with the regiment during 1918, as best I can tell: Major v. Reden Rittm. Merz Rittm. Frhr. v. dem Bussche-Streithorst Rittm. v. Ehrenkrook Oblt. v. Schintling-Horny Oblt. Liebster Lt. v. Schierbrand Lt. Guenther Lt. d. R. Hahne Lt. d. R. Leo Lt. v.Arnim Lt. v.Poser u. Gross-Nadliz Lt. Koerner (Gottfried) Lt. Mummert Lt. Herfurth Lt. v.Leonhardi Lt. Wünning Lt. v.Kyaw Lt.d.R Riedel Lt.d.R Körner (Rudolf) Lt.d.R Frentzel Lt.d.R Hahne Lt.d.R Hübner Lt.d.R Leo Lt.d.R Hildebrand Lt.d.R Serre Lt.d.R Koerner (Richard) Lt.d.R Oettler Lt.d.Ldw.Kav Eisentraut Lt.d.R Schippel Oberstabsarzt d.R. Dr. Günzel Feldhilfsarzt Andree Stabsarzt Dr. Schenke Stabsarzt d.R. Dr. Thalwitzer Vetrinär d.R. Willkomm From that list, I crossed out everyone mentioned in the book / the newspaper article as having been awarded the Cross or Medal of Liberty. Of the remainder, three can be ruled out right off the bat: Rittm. Frhr. v. dem Bussche-Streithorst - KIA Lt. d. R. Leo. - had an SV3bX Oberstabsarzt d.R. Dr. Otto Günzel - had a long service decoration Oblt. Liebster - no info on decorations Lt. v. Kyaw - no info on decorations Lt.d.R Oettler - no info on decorations Feldhilfsarzt Andree - no info on decorations Vetrinär d.R. Willkomm - no info on decorations Lt. Koerner (Gottfried) - confirmed SA3bX Lt.d.R Serre - confirmed SA3bX Lt.d.Ldw.Kav Eisentraut - appears in photo wearing SA3bX & EK2 on a medal bar (posted in a thread here) Lt.d.R Riedel (Erich)- appears in a photo from the same source wearing a 3 place ribbon bar that could easily be an SA3bX, EK, GSF3bX combination. At the moment, he seems to be the most likely candidate. Edited September 24 by landsknechte 1
Nicolas7507 Posted November 4 Posted November 4 I am not sure if I can agree on Riedel. If he was born on 09.12.1892 this is him: Hauptmann (E) 01.05.34 RIEDEL Erich (Adj. WBK Königsberg I) Oberstleutnant (01.01.43) The last medal on my and Daniels bar is the Medal for the Battle of Helsinki and was issued in 1938. Thus a Wehrmacht Long Service Decoration should be on the bar, too. Nicolas 1
landsknechte Posted November 5 Posted November 5 Quote I am not sure if I can agree on Riedel. If he was born on 09.12.1892 this is him: Hauptmann (E) 01.05.34 RIEDEL Erich (Adj. WBK Königsberg I) Oberstleutnant (01.01.43) The last medal on my and Daniels bar is the Medal for the Battle of Helsinki and was issued in 1938. Thus a Wehrmacht Long Service Decoration should be on the bar, too. Does that source you're looking at list when he was promoted to Leutnant? I don't have a birthdate for him, but if the promotion is 12.11.13, then it's most likely a good match. There's still eight officers that I have not been able to rule out yet, he's just the best so far.
landsknechte Posted November 13 Posted November 13 Forum user Haku was kind enough to cross check the Erhard Roth books, and that helped to clear things up quite a bit. There are six officers we can eliminate right off the bat: Lt. v. Kyaw - two different Kyaw with SA3aX, none had GSF3bX Lt.d.R Oettler - no SA3aX/SA3bX, no GSF3bX Feldhilfsarzt Andree - SA3aX, no GSF3bX Vetrinär d.R. Willkomm - SA3aX, no GSF3bX Lt. Gottfried Koerner - GSF3bX, no SA3aX/SA3bX (There were a bunch of Koerners / Körners in the Karabiner-Regiment. A different one had the Albrecht-Orden.) Lt.d.Ldw.Kav Eisentraut - appears in photo wearing SA3bX & EK2 on a medal bar, but no GSF3bX There seem to be two matches remaining. Both of them lived long enough that the surviving ribbon bars would be possible, and I'm still digging for clues. Oblt. Adalbert Liebster - SA3aX 25.4.15, GSF3bX 1914 -- Born Daniel Adalbert Liebster on 26.1.96 in Leipzig. Appears in several Leipzig city directories as publisher (I think, can anyone more fluent verify that's the correct interpretation of "Verl.Buch-hdl.") and held a Ph.D. Still alive in 1960. Lt.d.R Friedrich Serre - SA3bX, GSF3bX 1914 -- Born Anton Karl Friedrich Serre on 22.6.91. Married in Dresden in 1922. Died 9.6.66.
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now